Marriage/motherhood warning list

[Someoneshouldatoldme]

Based on many many threads here and my own lived experience, shouldn't we warn all daughters and women pre-marriage or motherhood so that they really know what they'regetting into? I'll list a few, feel free to add:

1. Don't have a child with ANYONE at all unless you know you can manage as a single parent

1. If your husband tells you they want a child and will look after them as well as you, assume they mean occasional fun times and some cooking. (If you're proven wrong, you'll be delighted)

1. Your husband might become your biggest problem once you are pregnant or with a child. Even the 'nicest' guys can (and many will) turn emotionally or physically abusive at this time. You might end up seriously hurt. Many will cheat.

1. Never assume his money is family money. He might pretend for years that it is, only for you to find out that it isnt.

Any others?

I agree OP. I’ve never seen the appeal of marriage or kids and won’t be doing either but plenty of people do seem to want it to so this bears repeating (especially after reading the horror stories on here). I think financial independence - not masses of wealth, just the ability to support yourself - should be everyone’s priority and it should be hammered home in schools in personal and social education or whatever they call it these days.

Gobsmacked 😵‍💫 Are you for real?

🤭

Well it obviously is.

I like how you were brave enough to ask what some other posters were likely wondering.

Yes, this too. I do unfortunately know some women with shit useless male partners but I also know women with decent ones. The mumsnet sample is skewed because people in unhappy situations are drawn to post here but it’s way more extreme than what I see IRL (yes, I do live in a liberal enlightened bubble tbh).

That said, it seems like the root of the issue is that so many of the women posting here just put themselves last all the time to the extent that they don’t know who they are or what they want. It baffles me. I was raised in an home with very unfair gender roles but instead of internalising that I remember even as a young child thinking, fuck that, it’ll never be me. Since I’ve been an adult I don’t think I’ve ever really done anything I didn’t want to do, and I’ve largely lived my life with myself and my desires/ambitions/expectations at the forefront and made my decisions based on that. I did have a period of bad mental health where I desperately tried to make relationships work with people who were treating me badly but even then, I’ve never experienced the murky depths of male behaviour that some people on here put up with. Maybe the most important message to give to women who are inclined not to advocate for themselves is to put themselves first at all times.

As ever the issue with earning and being self-sufficient changes with kids. You can't work all the hours unless you pay a significant amount in childcare or are lucky enough to have family to rely on. Women get shafted this way because as a society we still don't hold men to account for children they co-create.

As we are the ones who are literally left holding the baby, it makes sense to warn women of what to look out for. Most women don't aim to become single mothers, but we have to plan in case because it is very common. Many men don't even think about having kids, yet they do often constantly think of sex, which is where the problem and disparity starts.

@6thformoptions Why is it down to us as women though as you say? A child should be 50/50 responsibility.

Would be nice if the government and HMRC could do something about the fact they make it so easy for men to walk away financially, in this day and age!

@6thformoptions Marriage before having kids helps here.

Nope. Never does, as I said if they want to leave and not pay, they will and they can and they very often do.

@6thformoptions

As ever the issue with earning and being self-sufficient changes with kids. You can't work all the hours unless you pay a significant amount in childcare or are lucky enough to have family to rely on. Women get shafted this way because as a society we still don't hold men to account for children they co-create.

You can't necessarily work "all the hours" but you can work. Most women take their foot off the pedal to some degree when they have children, even if its just maternity leave and that's completely normal and natural. But as long as you keep some connection with the world of work, it doesn't have to be forever. This isn't about insisting on some sort of "girl boss" paradise where you have to be earning six figures. It's about making sure your right to be economically independent is heard within the family.

What I find really depressing is the people who justify to themselves the fact that they've given up, saying things like "it made much more sense to put his job first" and "he couldn't earn what he does without support from me at home". You have to set the terms before you marry and have kids. If you want to work, insist that you will be supported with the cost of childcare, that he will pick up enough of the drop-offs and pick-ups to allow you to get your job done and that he will help you on the home front. If those things are a dealbreaker to a man, you shouldn't marry him in the first place. A man who wants his wife to be entirely economically inactive in perpetuity is a man who wants to control his wife.

Don't just meekly allow your economic independence to be pushed off the table without a fight.

@6thformoptions But you're entitled to half the house as a great starting point. And no reason why anybody can't work with children of school age.

@Thepeopleversuswork So well said! But I think the actual reality is some women just don't want to work a paid job after having children. Possibly ever. Their choice but don't be surprised when it creates a huge imbalance that men will so often take advantage of.

So if the house is in the woman's name...
If he goes self employed and you have no way of knowing his income...

There are quite a few reasons people don't work and women are more likely to be off with long term health issues that have been overlooked or un-treated than men. Women's wages are still not equal to men so even if you can work around nursery you'd not get as much in as he would. Having to raise children on one lower salary is a ridiculous idea and the govt know the rest of us pay taxes to keep these men's kids in clothes and fed. Time they step up and fix it.

@6thformoptions I agree. But it's not going to be fixed by women becoming SAHMs. I earn more than my husband because I have far more formal qualifications and pushed myself in school to do well. No way was I ever giving up my career to a man with A Big Job but nothing else to offer.

That's convenient for him. If you've explained to them in detail what 50% shared load actually means - ie including mental load and shitwork, including 'oh I'm not bothered by mess, you do it if you are' etc etc - well, if he then chooses not to take his 50% fair share then he's made a conscious choice to be a bad man.

I don't think anyone on the thread is suggesting that. Most single mum's work very hard and have to do a lot of balancing of whether they can afford to take more work/longer hours against child care.

The thread is looking out for flags that men show that might mean they're up to no good and what to look for in men.

We've deviated slightly to how men can get away without paying anything for their kids and STILL posters are asking if the woman in some imagined scenario works as if that is the issue.

@6thformoptions If the woman doesn't work, especially if she hasn't done so for years, it is far more difficult to pick herself up and support her kids when he clears off as you have mentioned.
I became a single mum and I am so very grateful I didn't give up work like Mr Big Man ex-husband wanted me too. I needed it to get back on my feet without needing to rely upon him nor the government.

Right, I think we were talking at cross purposes and it was being said that most women don't work if the ex leaves, which as we know is not usually the case once children reach school age and mum's have more time to balance the cost of childcare.

@6thformoptions

The thread is looking out for flags that men show that might mean they're up to no good and what to look for in men

Its not just “looking out for flags”, its things to be prepared for. Its stuff your parents should have warned you about but probably didn’t.

For most of history women have gone into marriage without asking questions because it was assumed that their husbands would take care of them and had their best interests at heart. And because they didn’t have many better options.

Nowadays things are much more complicated. Family dynamics are different, there are fewer moral strictures and women are more likely to work which makes family like more challenging.

Its knowing ahead of time what things could become a problem and knowing what questions to ask.

Wow

Thank you for writing this post. I found it really insightful. My children are still young and it’s very easy to fall into the trap of being so consumed by early parenthood that you don’t think about what lies ahead.

Well, it IS often women who perpetuate the idea that marriage, or even just being one of two, is the pinnacle of life and should be the ultimate goal 🤷‍♀️
If we are not raising our girls to be emotionally intelligent enough and self aware and with enough self belief to know that a good partner adds to their life and isn't THEIR LIFE, then where has it gone wrong? If we're not choosing the type of role models our children need and deserve, then do we take no blame?
Totally on the man who lies, misleads and is generally an arse but it's the 'why' a woman accepts that that IS the problem

We should audition men for the role of fathers 😁 Put them through vigorous selection process of emotional maturity, ability to put their own needs aside, test their brain capacity for meta-work, grade their household chores. Only the top performing ones get to pass on their dna
Well, yes. We should be more choosy. For all those who say there were no signs. There were but the desire to have a relationship and have a baby often wins out.

A young woman who simply wants to settle and have babies and a partner isn't going to be focused on anything but that. We need to raise our girls so THEY know the strength that comes when you KNOW you are worth far more than that

Think about timings when having children. Beware putting it off. If they're toddlers / adolescents while you're peri menopausal, that will be hell.