To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers

[LupaMoonhowl]

I live in London and wasn’t aware of this till I saw in mentioned in passing on another thread.
It is utterly scandalous that they can hold the city to ransom like this! How can they cut off key transport for 5 days! And no doubt they’re confident that the spineless, incompetent and public sector/vote buying government and cynical chancer Kahn will give into what they demand.
Back to the 70s 😔😔
Tube and DLR strikes - September 2025
Strikes are planned on the Tube and DLR.

• From Sunday 7 to Thursday 11 September 2025, Tube services will be severely disrupted, with little to no service expected
• Any services that do run between Monday 8 and Friday 12 September will start later than usual with no service before 08:00
• On Tuesday 8 and Thursday 11 September 2025, there will also be no service on the DLR

Maybe since they can’t negotiate their salaries individually like most people can, TfL should just default to paying inflation based wage rises so they don’t have to fight for it? I’m sure that would be preferable all round.

Some info here about the reasons they are striking. It's not just about pay.

RMT will launch rolling strike action over pay, conditions and broken agreements on London Underground - rmt share.google/7AmoJxLB0NyUHQA3c

The train drivers strike all the time. I remember in the early oughts when they struck because their comrade had been caught on video playing squash when he was off sick.

It was ever thus.

Are there any details of the working week and extreme shift patterns? Not doubting it but I’ve never seen the actual details so curious

i will just work from home but I feel for those on low incomes who will have to find a way in and those on zero hours contracts

"Like most people can"

Millions of workers can't individually negotiate their salaries at all. NHS employees, teachers, council workers, firefighters, binmen etc. etc.

Every year there are train strikes.

I don’t understand how people start working on the trains and then complain about the pay/pension/working conditions. It has always been the same.

However, they have a captive market so striking always works.

You complain about train strikes.

Then you complain about a ‘spineless’ government giving into them.

How would you solve it? Seems solving it is the only way. Why is that ‘spineless?’

True - I know someone who works for TFL and said once that every strike about ‘conditions’ includes reinstating a bunch of people who were sacked for xyz. TFL refuse to do that (rightly) and so the whole deal goes out the window, even if the union was satisfied with the pay element on offer.

Whichever way your sympathies lie, I think it should be borne in mind that trains driven by humans aren't likely to exist at all for very much longer.

They're well along the line with driverless cars, and even lorries, to be used across the entire massive, congested road network; so with transport that only moves along a certain pre-determined number of locked in rails, it's far, far easier to automate it.

The perpetual industrial action really is a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Well a little bit of information into why they're striking might have been good. I would imagine they're striking for a good reason, but I don't think you're that fussed about the detail are you?

A lot of those sectors are balloting or have/ are striking.

That in itself should be telling the electorate something.

People want public services, transport, education, care, health - but no one wants to pay these people a wage that shows they are as important as other sectors. Yet 5 years ago they were keyworkers keeping the country running.

Until public sector workers are respected as equals when it comes to employments (rather than them being vocational roles which also require a degree) these strikes will continue.

I don't know if this is the whole truth, partial truth or nothing but propaganda and lies; but I read that the salary for the job was set at a very attractive rate, specifically to take account of all of the antisocial working days and hours that would come as part of the territory - and then the unions started complaining because there was no double/extra pay on top of that for working antisocial shifts.

They have a lot of leverage.

And where people are unable to negotiate their salary their only recourse is to industrial action. At the very least, inflation based awards would mean that firemen, nurses, doctors, bin men, and yes, train drivers, didn’t have their incomes steadily eroded annually because they have no means of negotiating any kind of performance or duty related increase to their pay.

an economy such as ours which is based on 2-3% inflation driven by fiscal policy is the steady transfer of wealth from those on fixed wages to those who own assets. It’s outrageous that nurses had a pay freeze for over 10 years. Now look- there’s a recruitment crisis in nursing…I wonder why…

A lot of those sectors are balloting or have/ are striking.

Yes, they are indeed. But they still can't individually negotiate their salaries, as PP seemed to be suggesting that most people apart from train drivers could.

It's not like a teacher or a nurse can go and butter up their boss, point out how good a worker they are and pull a few strings to bag a bigger salary just for themselves.

I know they can’t negotiate individually. I’ve reread my reply and can’t see where I’ve said they can? Or responded to that?

I responded to the fact that those people strike because the pay is low/ inflation rises lower than inflation (and that is related to not being able to negotiate individually but that’s the same with all jobs that are paid in bands and generally public sector roles)

They want a reduction from the 35 hour week to support fatigue management. Who else has a 35 hour week?
We should have upgraded to automated trains years ago but of course we can’t afford that either so we will cave to the ‘drivers’ again

The technology is in all of the newer trains, to be driverless. The only reason they still have drivers at all, is union power. Sooner they go the better. They’ve been taking the piss out of London commuters, and British tax payers, for too long. Their conditions and pay are incomparable (as in far far better) than most people.

And again: yes it is most that can negotiate their pay: the public sector in the uk makes up roughly 1/5 to 1/4 of employees. So yes, most can negotiate individually.

I no wouldn’t fancy being on a train with a tired drive though. Maybe they have a point.

Train packed full of people. One slip up through fatigue and where are you?

Pilots work less than that and they are also navigating big vehicles full of people.

Some pretty loaded adjectives in your title there OP. And no IABU/IANBU buttons. Looks like you've made your mind up. Your position and prejudices are clear.

You think the drivers still drive the trains?

I never really get why people don’t think “good for them” don’t you want to earn as much money as you possibly can? The maximum return for your labour?

whether it’s financially reasonable is their employers problem, not yours.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

I was purely addressing the strange suggestion that most people can negotiate their salaries on an individual basis.

You pay them, if you’re a British tax payer.