To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers

[LupaMoonhowl]

I live in London and wasn’t aware of this till I saw in mentioned in passing on another thread.
It is utterly scandalous that they can hold the city to ransom like this! How can they cut off key transport for 5 days! And no doubt they’re confident that the spineless, incompetent and public sector/vote buying government and cynical chancer Kahn will give into what they demand.
Back to the 70s 😔😔
Tube and DLR strikes - September 2025
Strikes are planned on the Tube and DLR.

• From Sunday 7 to Thursday 11 September 2025, Tube services will be severely disrupted, with little to no service expected
• Any services that do run between Monday 8 and Friday 12 September will start later than usual with no service before 08:00
• On Tuesday 8 and Thursday 11 September 2025, there will also be no service on the DLR

I’d like to know where you work so I can apply!

DH and I have been PAYE in the private sector in the UK for 25 years, working for FTSE companies, sometimes top 5 global companies. We both have MBAs. We have never, never had such good terms.

I do believe you, but I think you are so unrepresentative that you are an irrelevant example when comparing public sector vs private sector.

We live in a capitalist society so it doesn’t matter who is more deserving- the market dictates what value people hold financially and how much they can demand to be paid.

in the sectors that can’t operate under capitalism (much of transport, education, housing and in the uk, health and social care) the government step in to regulate and financially/ legally support the industry.

if no-one worked for the GCSe charity mentioned above due to its crap pay and conditions, it would cease to exist and the commercial sector or the government would step in to deliver its services. It’s not needed, it’s just the way it’s run now.

you can’t put emotional logic into capitalism, it doesn’t care about that.

Some of that does only come with the seniority of my level, but the point was benefits vary across employers. It’s not public amazing private terrible

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-abandons-plans-for-driverless-tube-trains-77435/

"Despite the claims that it would prevent strikes on the tube, the reality is that it wouldn’t, as driverless trains would still have staff on board, just as the DLR does, and the DLR still has strikes."

Actually, you can thank Mrs Thatcher for this shit show. We are one of the only countries that do not allow workers protesting pay and conditions to punch up rather than down. The neo liberal witch outlawed it. In other countries, when stuff like this happens they run the infrastructure but make it free to use so it hurts shareholders but doesn't affect the workers. We are only allowed to hurt the people who are relying on the infrastructure, which leads to there being little support for strikes. Divide and conquer. The British way.

FWIW, i met someone recently who has extensive experience of TFL and specifically the tube network. Her assessment was that if the public knew how dangerous the network was and how much it relies on luck for safety, no-one would get on a tube train ever again. So think on before you try nailing the drivers to the floor for wanting better conditions.

So many complex jobs can be reduced to “pushing buttons” - pilot, dialysis nurse, anaesthetist, nuclear power plant operative. Crane operator. Lots more can be reduced to “just sitting in front of a computer”.

It’s a remarkably silly criticism, and I’d immediately write off anyone who made it as an idiot not worth engaging with.

I have hinted as much about my spouse’s and my level of seniority as I would wish to. I assume you don’t want to out yourself either. So I think we have to leave this.

Your ideas about capitalism and labour regulation are certainly original.

IME being senior in large organisations generally means no one gives a fiddle about MBAs - which seemed quite a younger persons comment, but apologies for misunderstanding.

Sack a few and replace them. Most bus drivers would apply,
Far easier and much better pay.

No, just very basic emergency requirements.

Agree they are pointless. Very much en vogue 30 years ago. I would not recommend them to high flyers in their late 20s now.

I would consider MBAs an American import that fizzled out.

Getting back to the topic if the thread, you are insinuating that you are very senior and very successful. Most workers in the private sector are not. Train drivers are hardly the pinnacle of the public sector. Surely train drivers’ terms and conditions should be compared against their private sector equivalents, rather than yourself, no?

I’m not at all. I am responding to the poster who suggested that working in the private sector was 20 days annual leave and 3% pensions. Not all are like that at all

Nope. I love railways. They’re brilliant, really genius pieces of engineering. Ask my wife, I can bore the socks off anyone. Railways are marvellously complex bits of mechanical, electrical and social engineering.

The PSA on a DLR train isn’t a trained customer service monkey. They have to have full route knowledge and full procedural knowledge as well as technical knowledge about how the train works to operate it in this restricted mode. There are other parts to this equation for sure- the control room staff, the technical staff, but it’s not just “durrr monkey push button make train go”.

Moving trains outside of signalled protection is a risk-ridden process where trains can (and have been!) derailed, risking lives and huge asset and infrastructure costs. This is prevented by having systems where people are trained to a high degree to reduce that risk as low as reasonably practicable. Ultimately what train staff are getting paid for is what they know, not what they do.

Yes, anyone with fingers can push a button. Anyone with a hand can move a lever. Knowing what button, at what time, in which sequence, to do things safely, is the trick. Turns out that’s not so easy, especially when you’re under pressure.

Train drivers in the UK are already the HIGHEST PAID in the WORLD.

Sorry for caps, but honestly. We get all this shit, and they are just grabby lazy whatnots.

SWT couldn't put into service swanky new trains because the guards wouldn't let the drivers close the automatic doors. 10 years that's been going on. Brand new trains not used, bought, but just sitting around. Now they tell us they need to train them how to use them, so they have reduced the service in order to do that. Hey, guys, press this button ...... But carefully......No doubt they'll need more money, because it's not in their contract to press that button

Why do you think there are brand new unused trains sitting around not in use because drivers won’t drive them?

Sorry, but being the highest paid in the world means that other countries don't pay more - in other words, so fucking what? It's irrelevant.

And if it's so great and easy a job, I suggest that you apply.

I’m in the north of England. I’m just jealous you have trains.

They are a rare thing here.

Exactly.

If so, why haven't bus drivers been applying in their droves and why is there a shortage of train drivers?

Is there a shortage? TFL is not advertising any open train driver positions.

https://london-gov.jobs2web.com/tfl/search/?createNewAlert=false&q=&optionsFacetsDD_dept=&optionsFacetsDD_shifttype=

No upcoming events for apprenticeship cohorts:

https://tfl.recsolu.com/external/events_central

Their problem might be that they are a bit coy about letting applicants know how to apply. I think a lot of people would jump at the chance. Or maybe it’s one of those jobs you can only get if you have a dad of uncle in the union. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Good for them, I hope they win.

Yes it is -like being ‘in the print’ used to be before Wapping.

"To think this spineless government will give in to grabby train drivers..."

Why are you involving the government - they are not the employers in this dispute? The drivers are employed by TfL - and the majority of TfL's revenue comes not from the taxpayer but from fares, the congestion charge and from commercial activities such as adverts on station platforms.

Why should train drivers not use their collective bargaining power to obtain the best outcome for themselves - isn't that what the right-wing Free Market supporters advocate, or does their version of a Free Market only really mean an employment market rigged in favour of employers?

Possibly but it will come here too.

The Victoria line doesn’t need drivers - it can run without. As others have pointed out the DLR doesn’t use drivers. Best bit is driving the DLR into Bank.

I reckon that drivers will continue to be in most London Underground trains for a very long time.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-report-reveals-the-cost-and-challenges-of-introducing-driverless-tube-trains-79316/