To ask which secondary you would choose in this situation?

[AllGonePeteTong1]

Sorry, not really an AIBU but keen to get lots of points of view.

Really spinning about what to do regarding secondary school for DD2. We need to decide this autumn. She has a recent diagnosis of ADHD and Autism. She's needed a lot of help to cope in primary, socially and academically. She is bright but has poor working memory and slow processing speed so is just scraping into 'meeting expectations'. She's struggled with friendship issues and has sensory issues with uniform and finding the classroom too loud. She has regular meltdowns at home. I'm very concerned about how she will cope at secondary, which is why we're in the process of getting her an EHCP (about to start the assessment). The local options are as follows:

Option 1: Local mainstream state co-ed secondary.
Pros: Sister already there. 10 minute walk away. All her friends will be going. Very high achieving school and Ofsted Outstanding. Good for music and drama, which DD is interested in. Has a specialist autism unit although it's only open to those funded via EHCP (only 4 places so unlikely my DD will get a place even with an EHCP).
Cons: VERY strict, particularly about uniform (totally inflexible) which I'm very concerned about given DD2's sensory issues. Questionable pastoral care (based on my older DD's experience). Reputation for not being great for lower level SEN needs. Poor transition support in year 7.

Option 2: Mainstream state girls school.
Pros: will know a couple of people there. Likely to be calmer environment given no boys. Good reputation for SEN support, pastoral care and excellent transition arrangements. No tie requirement (a big plus for DD). Also Ofsted Outstanding. Decent results though not as strong as option 1.
Cons: 50 minute walk or two bus rides away. Single sex, which DD isn't so keen on. Very large school, which could be overwhelming.

Option 3: Small independent school with high proportion of kids with SEN. Pros: Very positive ethos about finding the best in every child rather than being an exam factory. Homely feel, which would suit DD, small class sizes and exceptional SEN support e.g. onsite OTs, therapy/sensory room, one-to-one tuition - although this comes with an extra cost). Very nurturing. I think academically DD would flourish in this kind of environment.
Cons: A 50 minute bus journey away with only one bus a day - which means staying each day at school until 5pm. The distance would mean no local friends; small number of girls (used to be boys' school); and the biggie - the expense. It's affordable assuming my business continues to do well, but would mean a big evaluation of our financial plans (e.g. retiring much later). Also worried it would fuel resentment between DD1 and DD2, which is already a very strained relationship.

We're obviously going to attend all school open days, speak to the Sencos and see what DD feels most comfortable with, but would be really interested to hear people's experience who have had similar dilemmas!

Sounds like a great option. Best of luck to your DD!

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, this has really made me think. I really hope things work out for your DD at the sixth form. It sounds like she's done brilliant despite the last school.

That must be really stressful for you all. Really hope it all works out for your daughter.

I like the sound of option 2.
Is getting council funded taxi to school an option if you are successful with EHCP?
I would be cautious about option 1 as good results based on very strict policies are not SEN friendly imo. Life at secondary is very stressful and complicated so flexibility is very important.
I would be reluctant to commit to option 3.

Have a look at Canbury if that isn’t already your option 3 - independent but most are funded by EHCP. If we were nearer we would love it for our DD!

School 2. School 3 would damage the relationship between your daughters and that is a lifelong thing, school is not.

I’d be worried about option 3 closing down unexpectedly - quite a few smaller independent schools are struggling at the moment

Option 2. Bus there, and pick her up. There may be other parents who you can lift share with.

State schools cannot cope with the volume of SEN pupils, often with parents with huge expectations. Schools do not get the funding for facilities or specialist staff. They struggle to recruit low paid teacher assistants, and they are often unqualified. I would suggest all parents who have SEN children become teaching assistants and then you might get a better idea of the struggles they face every day. Go to the open days, try and get a feel for the school. If you are shown round by pupils you will soon know if it’s a happy and caring school.

I don't know if a taxi to option 2 is possible. Something to explore though if we're successful in getting the EHCP.

This is a good point. I'll look at their finances on Companies House

Hi OP, as the mum of an AuDHD girl with an EHCP about to go into year 8 of a mainstream comprehensive, I'd observe the following:

1. It is likely you will not get the EHCP before the end of October application deadline passes and quite likely you won't get it before places are awarded in March, especially if you end up in a refuse to issue tribunal. In that case you should apply for school 2 before then, plus however more credible choices your LA allow. You may not be able to speak to the SENCO at school 2 although you should keep trying. School SEN teams are very stretched at this time of year settling in the new year 7s. You won't be a priority.
2. That is a good thing because your daughter will then have a place, whereas if it was an EHCP placement request, the school could well say they can't meet need (my school turned down EHCP applications amounting to fully 60% of our year 7 places this year - obviously we can't have 60% of our year 7 on EHCP: we're mainstream).
3. Your DD, hopefully, if she has a place, can then transfer to a named place on EHCP because it's capacity neutral in terms of the school has already allocated a place to her. That's not really how it's supposed to work but in our case it did.
4. There are probably more than three options for you. Do some more research and keep an open mind. There are lots of independent schools in your area and probably some state ones you haven't thought of. I ended up sending my DD to a school in a neighbouring borough due to stonewalling by my LA and difficulty securing SEN information about our local schools. In fact I sent her to the school where I teach, as I knew at least I was working on reliable information - better the devil you know, etc!
5. Independent schools that are part of a chain have got better economies of scale so try to find one of those not a stand-alone (unless it's got a massive endowment - but those are often boys' ones - although a boys' one that has started taking girls might be ok). But do read their T&C very carefully: my DD had a very happy primary experience at an independent chain but the T&C, updated during her time there, actually said they could exclude any child if their SEN became too difficult - I paraphrase but they can and do, do that.
6. Regarding your business, presumably it would be very bad for your business if your daughter developed EBSA and this is very common with autistic girls making the transition from year 6 to year 7. You have to act defensively. You need a Plan B in case school 2 doesn't work out. I have got a whole list of Plan B schools!
7. Regarding your older daughter, maybe it would be worth looking at the support from Sibs, as sibling resentments are awful. https://www.sibs.org.uk/youngsibs/info-and-advice

Good luck - get on as many parent forums as you can & ask about. The right SENCO can make a huge difference and schools vary a great deal regarding how inclusive they are in practice. If you do get a refuse to issue then come join us on the EHCP support thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

My school makes a list each summer of the kids coming into year 7 who have EHCP, the kids coming whose primaries think they should have EHCP, and in September highlights those who (based on research & interviewing in the summer including a SEN transition day) the SENCO thinks need EHCP as a priority. They are all given similar support, because the SENCO believes (and my own experience supports this) that EHCP depends so much on the luck of not having a crap primary/LA and how much the parents are in a position to advocate, that that's the right thing to do. There are small nurture classes for those coming in who haven't reached entry levels in core subjects. A TA will sit in each class with each child in September to see how they are coping.

That's what an inclusive school does!

School 2, and if it really doesn't work out, then move her to School 3.

@Needlenardlenoo Thank you for this - that's really helpful

Will she be capable of getting to option 2 herself? Or will you need to take her and is that possible?
Personally I would rule out option 1 based on the sensory issues and uniform inflexibility. Nobody can learn if they are not comfortable.
I don’t know much about EHCP process but if you paid for option 3 now and then she gets an EHCP would the fact you have been paying for the school make it harder to get the LA to fund it? Presumably having her already there and settled would help your case that it’s the best place for her?

I've no idea on the EHCP front. Would welcome comments from anyone who could advise on this. In terms of transport - yes, she could get herself to option 2

Surely ECHP or not the diagnosis alone should mean she’d be allowed uniform adaptations. Why not telephone all the heads and ask them about all your concerns?

To add to what I said about transition, we also have a full time ELSA person (emotional support) who runs small groups for the 7s to work on emotional regulation, safer travel training (two TAs took my daughter out to check she could handle the public transport) and our SENCO is at board level which means she can actually make necessary changes.

Uniform adaptations comes under equalities legislation, but in practice it's common for large academy schools to refuse to make exceptions. Annoying, but we live in an ableist society with a weird fetish about uniform.

Option 2 or 3, depending on your financial situation.

The benefits of knowing friends and having a sibling at option 1 are overstated in my view. Kids usually reformulate their friendships at that age so knowing a bunch of people in that intake is pretty meaningless. Ditto having a sibling: it’s quite a burden on the sibling and no one wants to feel “carried” by a sibling.

Option 3 sounds best to me but option 2 a good compromise if your finances don’t stretch.

I would say option 3. I would definately avoid option 1. A specialist autism unit, but the teachers don't seem to understand making fairly minor adjustments for the autistic kids, screams horror show frankly! Are the teachers against the autism unit? Is the teachers'/senior leaders'/headteachers' idea that the presence of the unit means the school ticks loads of boxes for inclusion while sticking the "problem kids" in a unit and forgetting about them?! Option 2 sounds just too big for the teachers to really know the students well.

Option 1 or 2 both great options. Option 1 wins in my eyes due to proximity to home and elder sister there too. Keep Option 3 for if you think she needs a change later on.