To ask which secondary you would choose in this situation?

[AllGonePeteTong1]

Sorry, not really an AIBU but keen to get lots of points of view.

Really spinning about what to do regarding secondary school for DD2. We need to decide this autumn. She has a recent diagnosis of ADHD and Autism. She's needed a lot of help to cope in primary, socially and academically. She is bright but has poor working memory and slow processing speed so is just scraping into 'meeting expectations'. She's struggled with friendship issues and has sensory issues with uniform and finding the classroom too loud. She has regular meltdowns at home. I'm very concerned about how she will cope at secondary, which is why we're in the process of getting her an EHCP (about to start the assessment). The local options are as follows:

Option 1: Local mainstream state co-ed secondary.
Pros: Sister already there. 10 minute walk away. All her friends will be going. Very high achieving school and Ofsted Outstanding. Good for music and drama, which DD is interested in. Has a specialist autism unit although it's only open to those funded via EHCP (only 4 places so unlikely my DD will get a place even with an EHCP).
Cons: VERY strict, particularly about uniform (totally inflexible) which I'm very concerned about given DD2's sensory issues. Questionable pastoral care (based on my older DD's experience). Reputation for not being great for lower level SEN needs. Poor transition support in year 7.

Option 2: Mainstream state girls school.
Pros: will know a couple of people there. Likely to be calmer environment given no boys. Good reputation for SEN support, pastoral care and excellent transition arrangements. No tie requirement (a big plus for DD). Also Ofsted Outstanding. Decent results though not as strong as option 1.
Cons: 50 minute walk or two bus rides away. Single sex, which DD isn't so keen on. Very large school, which could be overwhelming.

Option 3: Small independent school with high proportion of kids with SEN. Pros: Very positive ethos about finding the best in every child rather than being an exam factory. Homely feel, which would suit DD, small class sizes and exceptional SEN support e.g. onsite OTs, therapy/sensory room, one-to-one tuition - although this comes with an extra cost). Very nurturing. I think academically DD would flourish in this kind of environment.
Cons: A 50 minute bus journey away with only one bus a day - which means staying each day at school until 5pm. The distance would mean no local friends; small number of girls (used to be boys' school); and the biggie - the expense. It's affordable assuming my business continues to do well, but would mean a big evaluation of our financial plans (e.g. retiring much later). Also worried it would fuel resentment between DD1 and DD2, which is already a very strained relationship.

We're obviously going to attend all school open days, speak to the Sencos and see what DD feels most comfortable with, but would be really interested to hear people's experience who have had similar dilemmas!

Would she cope with a bus if she went to (2) or (particularly) (3)?

Yes, option 2 is a 10 minute drive and we're in the catchment area. It's just it's on a very busy A road and there is no direct bus. But it's not out of the question distance wise.

Definitely Option 2 or 3. I have a DS with ASD and he won't be going to the same school as his older brother precisely because it sounds like your option 1 - inflexible, disinterested in SEN kids and expecting them to fit in with everyone else. This would be a recipe for disaster for mine.

Our option 2 is also further away and none of his friends will be going. It will also be a pain for us for various practical reasons. However, they offer excellent pastoral support, seem genuinely interested in accommodating SEN kids and also engage willingly with us as parents.

Yes, I think so, but hard to know for sure.

Options 2 and 3 just seem like too much of a distance to me. Especially option 3!
How much ‘around the houses’ would 50 minutes on a bus be? If I take the bus to Asda in our town, it’s easily a 45 minute drive but that’s because it’s in a completely different part of town and with multiple buses a day!

Thanks for this. Sounds a very similar situation! I hope it all works out for your DS.

It's a nightmare decision and I feel for you. What clinched it for us was going to option 2 with DS and realising that we could actually imagine him there, whereas at option 1 he would be viewed as an inconvenience. Good luck!

Option 2, definitely, especially since the later things you've posted about option 1.

Could you meet with the SENCO of Option one and see if they really won’t make any adjustments? The long journeys of the other options might offset the benefits.

Definitely avoid option 1 if possible, based on experience. Option 3 is best if you can afford it, otherwise option 2.

I really wouldn't go for option 1 it sounds very unsupportive, if even your child who doesn't have a disability found it tough imagine how much worse it will be for your younger daughter. I would go for option 3 if you can get it named on an EHCP and funded with transport provided, if not I would go for option 2, and see if you can get transport provided there. Even though your daughter doesn't like the idea of single sex it could well be better for her, behaviour is getting worse in schools and particularly so among boys, that could be overwhelming and frightening for an autistic child.

Would there be any more options for state special school if you had the ehcp? Bear in mind the application process takes forever and tribunal waiting can be over a year, so you probably wouldn't get something for year 7 if you need to ho to a tribunal.

We went with a state school for autistic children. Ehcp and autism diagnosis needed. I do worry that it is quite far away for friendships outside of school, but it was that or very unsuitable schools.

We have a very similar set of options - 1 is an absolute no go for us, despite having all the Ofsted medals. A lot of children do really well there, I applaud what they do for the NT majority, but every autistic girl I know who has gone has had a breakdown by Y8.

We were looking at the equivalent of your option 2, but had an ed psych report which recommended specialist so that's where we are now looking. I've been surprised by there being some "specialist but not really" schools which are private but paid by the LA which sound a bit like option 3.

We're looking at option 4 which is autism specialist....

@AllGonePeteTong1

My older DS needed a fair bit of support to get through his mainstream primary in-tact emotionally. He had points where he had some suicidal ideation, extreme dysregulation and he got through because his Y6 teacher was exceptional, his TA was wonderful, and DH and I take zero shit and know how to advocate for our boys (both have EHCPs for ASD).

By sheer luck he’s got an exceptional memory and is naturally bright so was always able to meet (and sometimes exceed) academic levels. Nonetheless keeping him in school felt utterly exhausting for all of us.

He’s at a specialist senior school now. I would not have believed anyone who told me my son would go to school willingly, that I’d get glowing reports, that he’d make good friends and enjoy extracurricular activities.

The change in him owing to the new school is nothing short of miraculous.

The school that he may have (theoretically) ended up in if the LA hadn’t been decent was like your school option 1. He’d have been destroyed there. I’d never have sent him.

Kids like ours who are academically able, highly anxious, and struggle with communication (even if not obviously) need really good pastoral support above all.

Finally, it’s definitely worth seeing if School 3 would be funded by the EHCP. My son’s specialist is independent but wholly for children with an EHCP for ASD so the various local authorities pay the fees for all children who attend.

Don’t suppose you’re in SW London by any chance?

@RavenLaw

There are a couple like option 3 near me. My son’s best friend is at one and doing fantastically.

These children often just need time, tailored attention, flexibility around some rules, and kindness. Many ‘mainstream’ independents offer this.

I work in an ‘aspirational’ prep (hard eyeroll) and we have lots of boys with ASD & ADHD who thrive because our classes are small, we have a full curriculum which prioritises the whole child and not just academics.

We could have had a school like option 3 but opted for true specialist but it was a real toss of the coin and I think my son’s poor mental health meant true specialist was the safer option.

My DD is struggling with anxiety even with her incredibly nice and supportive primary. We're NW London rather than SW and looking at specialist because of DD's anxiety. There's no way she can manage a mainstream secondary, she's finding it hard enough with a mainstream primary even with an EHCP and the loveliest TA in the world. How is your son at specialist @Merryoldgoat ?

That should mean how is he coping / enjoying / managing it rather than how did he get there, sorry.

We had this dilemma exactly 12 months ago. We forgo Option 1 after viewing the school - for
our eldest NT DD is it tough enough although academically on track and thriving. Feedback from other parents and primary SENCo was consistent that this (ofsted oustanding) would be a disaster for DD2.

We visited options 2 and 3. DD2 chose our equivalent of option 3, although we are lucky as it is mainstream and state but much smaller, brilliant pastoral team, and transition support has been excellent. Although she starts officially next week I am 99% sure we have made the right choice, the worst thing we could have done was option 1. Visit the schools and pay attention to SEN provision and ratios of SEN staff to pupils. Our option 3 has 17:1300 whereas option 1 had 2:2300!

good luck OP.

@RavenLaw honestly he’s a different child,

We had a supportive primary too but after every break he’d be crying the night before, begging not to go back, coming home upset about noisy class and the constant discord.

He now goes off in the morning happy, comes home happy, no anxiety before school goes back, even now after the 6 week break he’s happy to return (ok, accepting more than happy) but not full of anxiety.

We spoke to him a lot about which school he’d like and he specifically said he wanted to be with more children ‘like him’. I think not feeling like he needs to explain himself all the time has been a very big relief for him.

To be honest I think more schools should be like his. He wears joggers and trainers so he’s comfy. They have lots of breaks, classes are shorter, teachers are more informal. It’s an altogether less stressful environment.

If you can cope financially, 3. School sounds as though it has experience with similar children. Likely to know how to get to know your dd well and help her build her confidence.

I just had to respond to this and share my experience. My dd (now 16) went to school 1 and it was the worst possible outcome. The school is obsessed with results made all the sort of 'right noises' about support but also constantly undermined and dismissed her. She was throwing up before exams and having regular panic attacks at school after a while. I wish with all my heart I had punched the head of pastoral in the face put my foot down and pulled her out earlier (she wanted to stay as that's where her friends were but ultimately I don't think it was the best thing for her). (un)Ironically they didn't offer her for 6th form (the week before exams!) but then she outperformed their expectations and surprise surprise they issued her an offer - but we found somewhere better for her.

If your DD has friendship issues or trouble reading social cues an all girl school is the worst place for her - regardless of how good the SENCO is, teenage girl relationships are tricky even for the most savvy of girls. I know of several AuDHD girls who went to all girls schools and had horrific times, regardless of how 'on it' the schools were.

From your list I would have given anything to be able to go back and find somewhere like place 3 for my dd. Do not underestimate the power of being told you're capable and encouraged or being in an environment where other people are like you. I think we've found the equivalent of that for dd for 6th form but if I could have given her that from year 7 I would do it in a heartbeat. Also if she gets the EHCP (which will probably take at least a year) then there is often transportation baked in if the LA agrees to name the school so it might not be as tricky as you expect. Hope that helps & good luck!

Just on the border of SW London and Surrey

I would choose option 3 if you can get it funded via her EHCP. If it’s deemed to be the nearest suitable school she should get transport as well. My son is at a state specialist for C&I. My poor daughter is stuck in our version of your option 1 and we both hate it. She’s not diagnosed yet and awaiting an assessment for ASD and an Ed Psych assessment for her EHCP.

I would avoid Option 1 tbh. The pros are minor and the cons are serious.
I think go for Option 2, and keep option 3 as a backup in case things go tits up, assuming they would do KS4 entry. (Perhaps you could offer DD1 KS4 or KS5 at private too, if she wants to?)

'Kindness'. Yes this exactly! It feels like many secondary schools are more like military camps. That's my eldest DDs experience anyway. The Option 3 school seemed so lovely comparatively - treating kids with respect rather than something to be controlled.