Immigrants but legal ones?

[Tiktakmam]

I’ve been living in the UK for 16 years, have two children, and work full-time. I consider myself integrated, living according to British values, and respecting this country. I look after myself and my home, and I try to contribute positively to the community.

Yet, many of us — especially from Eastern Europe — don’t feel entirely safe with the ongoing issues around illegal migrant boats. Even though we are legal residents, I’ve noticed growing dissatisfaction from some neighbours. When I mention that I’m from Eastern Europe, I often hear comments like, “Of course you are…” — basically implying I’m not British.

This makes me feel like I’ve somehow “brought these boats” here, as if I’m just another part of the immigrant problem. Seeing flags and attitudes that suggest “immigrants go home” is disheartening.

I also feel somewhat less confident around British people, especially in areas with mostly locals and fewer immigrants. For example, when I travel to campsites or smaller towns, I sometimes feel looked at as untrustworthy. Luckily, in London I feel much less like this.

Post-Brexit, it feels like the country has changed in ways that make life less secure, not just for immigrants but for everyone. It’s heartbreaking that all migrants, legal or not, are often dropped into one pot and judged as a single group.

I keep wondering — after so many years of people from other countries contributing to making the UK a brighter, more vibrant place, why does it feel like the country has been going downhill over time?

I feel so heartbroken, because I understand that the UK will never truly be my home, as I was not born here. Yet it hurts to realize that, with every passing year, it feels more and more like I will never be fully welcome.

Why has it gone so wrong on a broader scale? How can we have a healthier, safer society for everyone, while respecting the law and supporting integration?

I hope we can have a conversation about this that goes beyond fear and politics, and focuses on community, fairness, and safety for all residents.
Im just curious, in this era of migrant boats and heightened tension around immigration, how do you perceive or feel about other immigrants, even those who are legal residents? Does this climate affect the way you interact with them or how you feel about other immigrants, especially in less multicultural towns? What does your family of friends say?

It's very tricky. Racism is always wrong. It is possible, to both like and feel grateful for the many lovely individuals who have immigrated to the UK AND worry about the total numbers.

We need to maintain a sustainable population level in the UK. This has to be sustainable financially. And environmentally (e.g current problems with our water supply!). And in terms of social cohesion and well-being.

Most of the people arriving illegally by boats from France are young men from highly patriarchal and homophobic societies. They will typically (and understandably) have poor mental health and limited English speaking/written skills.

They will, if given leave to remain, usually struggle to find and keep reasonably-paid employment. So they will be a net financial burden on the state. They are likely to want to find a partner and have a family. But, understandably, most women want to settle down with someone who is emotionally and financially stable. So again these young men will typically struggle to integrate.

Underemployed, single men with patriarchal and homophobic views are not a benefit to the UK. This is true whether they are born here or come by boat.

Small numbers of arrivals could be managed, if shared fairly throughout the country. But the current numbers are too high and too concentrated in certain areas.

My view is that we need to tackle the main pull factors much more effectively. Which will include introducing secure ID cards for all UK employment/housing and understanding why the UK has a much higher average refugee acceptance rate than France.

No, I don't work in a museum 🙂 love museums and volunteer in one, though, when I can. It's a lot of fun.

My thoughts are as long as people are working and contributing I couldn’t care where you come from.

Perhaps we should just give all the racists a designated territory where they can bill their wall and recreate mini England and get some seed capital. And let all their racist mates join and let’s see how well they all get on. There won’t be any more subsidies from London though nor from the “migrants”. They can go create their own hell/utopia.

I wouldn’t worry as you are in a previous wave now. Brexit was partly the anti Eastern European vote and that’s now moved onto Middle East and new wave African migration. As you say you are well integrated as a wave now.

I am pretty anti immigration. My background on that is that I studied ecology, landscape and population statistics (as animals and plants - not humans). Primarily it’s a simple numbers game. Nothing personal. I do believe we have a social responsibility to understand the carrying capacity of this island and ensure we can live sustainably without relying on other countries resources.

I also want my children to be able to have the things I have had. Their own home, and as they work up the ladder the opportunity to have a detached home and/or with a garden. This is more a want than a need like above but that’s pure spatial / numbers game too. To me it’s a marker of quality of life. So whilst I don’t agree generally with mass migration (and yes that’s selfish somewhat); it is nothing personal and I like EE attitudes and values.

If I go back to the anti EE Brexit sentiment I think here part of the issue was the scale and speed of the migration and there was a portion of criminality with that which people did not like. It was also a very visible wave and was noticed mainly due to EE competence so not a bad thing at all. But it did cause a direct competition that couldn’t be ignored. Ie. Trades people, middle management, shops, and also organised crime gangs.

I will be honest and say sometimes it can be uncomfortable having a large portion of shops in your town which you feel strange to enter. We have shops here where all the labels are in polish I believe? I don’t know because I can’t read them but they have an incredible array of jams 🤣 and the fruit and veg is absolutely superior quality. But it is disorientating and can see why older people or less well travelled people would be really unhappy about the lack of English language. These are the good shops. We also have black market money laundering cigarettes under the floorboards shops run by EE gangs which stand on the pavement on guard. That is weird.

Why is everything just getting worse? I have no idea. If I was to guess we have lost community, and we are no longer a high trust society. We are a low wage economy. Health is firefighting rather than has capacity for proactive preventive medicine. Echo chambers and the internet/ 24 hour news is not helpful. People do not give benefit of doubt on someone and people can not have honest conversations without fear of being called xyz. Education is also important. We now have student fees for HE, we also have very mixed populations in primary. Which is not helpful for simple language development. My son’s language was quite delayed as his best friend was nearly mute at nursery. It took us a while to realise my son’s best friend father can not speak any English. He’s caught up now and thankfully we realised! We thought the father did not like us as would blank us and walk off when we tried to converse 🤦‍♀️

So there are social complexities from mass migration as well which just causes awkwardness.

Apologies for the long ramble but I think it is important to talk about these things. The lack of discussion is how the far right are able to capitalise on these topics.

But yes in short, just carry on. Dont feel uncomfortable. You’re not necessarily any more uncomfortable than some British people themselves (depending where you/they live). I think everyone just feels a bit out of sorts.

Someone with an Oxbridge Masters who has grown up in the UK and will enter an internationally mobile profession has every chance of being a net contributor to society. Why the implicit criticism?

@IceLollyMolly is here legally, making a contribution. Why should she be grateful?

By current standards DH would be seen as a “bad immigrant”. He is a North African Muslim who came here illegally to seek asylum, which he was granted. Being a refugee has huge psychological ramifications you’ve effectively had to disown your country of birth and don’t belong anywhere. It’s not an easy consequence free choice to make.

He has been here for over 30 years now and has worked consistently. Often doing jobs that were low paid shift work in hospitality or public transport. He is a British citizen and we have 2 adult children at university. He is not unusual amongst his friends. All the parents work and they expect their children to study hard and get a job.

How is that a detriment to our society?

If hes North African wouldn't France have been a more instinctive choice (thinking language and community hubs)

@Chickenbone123 in order to have this vision, you need to change the system.

Teach languages, ensure that especially social and health care are jobs which are valued and paid sufficiently.

But also realise that the world is smaller and more mobile, movement means knowledge exchange as well.
The issue is not immigration, it's that net-immigration is too high.

When I lived in my home country, the UK was always seen as aloof and a country who thought itself as being better than the rest of Europe (as in the continent, not just the EU).
When I arrived here I was astonished how easy it was to find a job based on the fact that I speak another language fluently, I know some of my UK colleages earn more because they speak another language.

I was definitely concerned with the very narrow history curriculum in school, yes it's important to learn the own country's past but there is so much more than the Tudors and Victorians.

I see your comment has been deleted @RedMaker but I don't really believe that most of the British people I encounter don't want me here. I have felt pretty welcome, as I have said many times. I have been invited to British people's homes, weddings and other celebrations. They didn't have to do that.

As for the UK changing, of course. I will deal with that when it happens, as most do. Threatening me is really pointless. I don't scare easy, no matter how hard you try. Have dealt with worse.

You clearly don't want me here, but you are a stranger on the net. Some others may not either. Again, I have followed the rules and that's all I can do..If rules change, I think again.

I'm perfectly happy with high skills migration. The trouble with being in the EU anyone could migrate, those without skills. The EU was meant to be a trading block no one wanted mass migration.

Well said @IceLollyMolly
That twerp does not speak for most of us.
you sound great and congratulations to your son too.

Some areas of the country have gone to shit. That’s the problem, it’s a very unequal nation. Unfortunately, but inevitably, most immigrants will settle in cheaper - ie poorer - areas. Which makes those areas struggle even more in terms of housing, public services etc. And the people in those areas are already struggling. So immigrants are an “easy” target.

I am sure this will get me attacked and called a right wing racist because apparently that sort of hate speech is perfectly acceptable,. I hate what is happening in this county right now, the boats, hotels amount of money being spent, but I would say the majority of people have absolutely no issues with legal immigration. Governments have not listened to the people which is why things have got so out of control. I can honestly say hand on heart i have no issues with legal immigration and I am sorry this is now affecting people like yourself who have done everything right and are an asset to the country. I work with people who were not born in Britain. Some east European some are from Africa and like me they all work their asses off and their taxes go towards paying for all this, there are enough layabouts already who make living off benefits a career choice. That needs sorting too but that's another thread

Rowan Williams (Former Archbishop of Canterbury, former Master of Magdelene College, Cambridge, Lord Williams of Oystermouth) has an excellent piece in the Guardian today.

It focuses on asylum seekers but the broader theme is how scarcity tends to bring out the worst in us all, from whatever position in society we hold and whatever our philosophical beliefs may be. Lord Williams believes that the only long term solutions to the immigration crisis will evolve from focusing on our common humanity.

This may make him sound like a pushover. He isn’t. The article is complex and thoughtful.

I’m very sorry you feel this way. There is a lot of ignorance around immigration and right wing populists are exploiting this to stir up hatred and division. We need a strong push on education and stopping the spread of misinformation. It won’t stop the racists of course who will always hate regardless of the truth but we can turn back to a more enlighted nation.
It important to point out that the immigrants in hotels are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers who have not yet been processed. If their claim for asylum is rejected and they abscond before deportation then they become illegal immigrants.

Yes I agree.

And when I say anti immigration; that is what I mean. Anti net high migration. Anti mass migration.

Our history lessons are odd. I don’t know whether part of that is that most history is quite age inappropriate. Ie. Death, slavery, wars etc. Most history is not nice history. But yes they should look at that.

Try posting something less hyperbolic and ridiculous then.

We don't need anymore left wing propaganda being taught to our children at school thank you.

The left wing are currently every bit as racist as the right wing. Being Jewish is extremely unpleasant in the UK at the moment. I don’t feel safe here anymore and I hide the fact that I’m Jewish when I first meet anyone new. I assume being Israeli must be really dangerous in some areas.

What are your views on the many young men entering Britain via small boat?

The truth is mass migration affects working class people more than anyone else. This is why you get white liberal middle class twits who call people racist ect when they live in their own little suburban bubbles. We are allowed to speak on our experiences and not be told we are racist. They probably don't want to upset thier cleaners 🙄.

I’m sure most people with accents have the intelligence to spot polite chit chat and not feel offending or ‘othered’. We can’t erase all evidence of Britishness to stop everyone across the world feeling othered by our existence.

I’ve stopped an entire pub in Glasgow (well it felt like it) with my English accent - I knew I was not Glaswegian, they knew I was not Glaswegian - why should they have to pretend otherwise?

I’m not saying left wing propaganda should be taught in schools. I’m saying facts should be taught and misinformation corrected. If you have a problem with that then you are the propagandist