Immigrants but legal ones?

[Tiktakmam]

I’ve been living in the UK for 16 years, have two children, and work full-time. I consider myself integrated, living according to British values, and respecting this country. I look after myself and my home, and I try to contribute positively to the community.

Yet, many of us — especially from Eastern Europe — don’t feel entirely safe with the ongoing issues around illegal migrant boats. Even though we are legal residents, I’ve noticed growing dissatisfaction from some neighbours. When I mention that I’m from Eastern Europe, I often hear comments like, “Of course you are…” — basically implying I’m not British.

This makes me feel like I’ve somehow “brought these boats” here, as if I’m just another part of the immigrant problem. Seeing flags and attitudes that suggest “immigrants go home” is disheartening.

I also feel somewhat less confident around British people, especially in areas with mostly locals and fewer immigrants. For example, when I travel to campsites or smaller towns, I sometimes feel looked at as untrustworthy. Luckily, in London I feel much less like this.

Post-Brexit, it feels like the country has changed in ways that make life less secure, not just for immigrants but for everyone. It’s heartbreaking that all migrants, legal or not, are often dropped into one pot and judged as a single group.

I keep wondering — after so many years of people from other countries contributing to making the UK a brighter, more vibrant place, why does it feel like the country has been going downhill over time?

I feel so heartbroken, because I understand that the UK will never truly be my home, as I was not born here. Yet it hurts to realize that, with every passing year, it feels more and more like I will never be fully welcome.

Why has it gone so wrong on a broader scale? How can we have a healthier, safer society for everyone, while respecting the law and supporting integration?

I hope we can have a conversation about this that goes beyond fear and politics, and focuses on community, fairness, and safety for all residents.
Im just curious, in this era of migrant boats and heightened tension around immigration, how do you perceive or feel about other immigrants, even those who are legal residents? Does this climate affect the way you interact with them or how you feel about other immigrants, especially in less multicultural towns? What does your family of friends say?

I mean speaking English is another bare minimum, yes

There is a huge eastern european community where I live, although it is a small town - there was a resettlement camp here in WW2 and a lot of people stayed on, so a lot of people who have names that identify their heritage but sound as local as local can be.

I think where we get into trouble is where there is a refusal to integrate. I dont mean you have to throw all of your own culture out of the window, there is no need for that. But if you do not largely accept the culture, language and values of the society you move to, even if you keep different customs, that is where problems begin. I guess the reason people immigrate is a factor- you are more likely to want to fit in if you move of your own free will.

I grew up in London, have lived all over the world and am a big fan of diversity. But when I see things like a rise in birth defects because of cousin marriage, or a drop in vaccine take up, or I go to an area where most people are not speaking english, it does make me uncomfortable. And if you combine that with economic difficulties, these things seem to be making a powder keg.

Um no. You stated and implied that the majority of UC claimants are British and Irish, they "just don't work" and are "xenophobic".

1. UC claimants include non British citizens.

2. Nearly 3 million or so are IN WORK. 3. Nearly 60% of UC claimants are women. Most likely with children. 4. 50% of UC households have children.

So, please, do petition government to channel your higher rate tax to asylum seekers instead of understanding the broader economic landscape of the UK, the working people claiming UC to top up low and stagnant wages because, as you said, British and Irish claimants "just don't work". I, however, am happy for my higher rate tax contributions to be used for the benefit of the citizens and residents of this country that need it.

I also hesitated, but eventually applied for citizenship for practical reasons.

I'm always conscious, however that I can be kicked out. Citizenship can be taken back, so I treasure the citizenship of my birth country. Thankfully, I'm allowed both.

Ok. I think you are deeply insular and are unfamilar with internationally mobile people working across the world, but that's your prerogative. My son has just got both an Oxford and Cambridge masters offer so perhaps he will make a home here. Or not. Who knows? He is going to be in an internationally mobile profession too.

As a tall brown man he will be yours and some people's worst nightmare, but that's your lookout really. Not his.

You're arguing against someone's personal experience.

We are generally a xenophobic country, it's just in the past it's been largely covered up in many by politeness. I've known plenty of people with mildly racist views, who would never have publicly voiced them, and would have been genuinely horrified at abuse or violence aimed immigrants. They still would like them to "go home", but would never dream of putting a brick through someone's window and look down on those who would.

If you’ve been here for 16 years then surely you know this isn’t a new issue. Did you forget the outrage and headlines about the EE “invasion “ and “swarms” way back when? We were the baddies then. Followed by the Brexit rhetoric , then actual Brexit. Now this . If you go further back , you’ll find more of the same. Immigrants are an easy scapegoat and it was ever thus. The “bad kind of immigrant “ might change, but the underlying sentiment is the same, and for some people no immigrant is a good immigrant.

I’m a big girl , I can take it and I’ve made very conscious decisions in regards to DD so she’ll never be seen as anything other than British so she doesn’t have to deal with any of the shit I’ve had to.

Now that is actually quite accurate. It is this kind of attitude that will bring a Reform government imo.

Like others I am sorry you feel this way and have been made to feel uncomfortable. I'm from a small town where about 5 years ago it was pretty much all white people with a small but notable population of Eastern Europeans with a few shops catering to Polish emigrants. My cousin is married to a woman who moved here from Poland.

In the past 5 years there seem to be a lot of people from Africa and India moving here to work in care, retail, security and so on. It is a very noticeable and shift as literally a few years ago you would never have seen anyone black or asian living here. We also have a migrant hotel in the town centre housing asylum seekers. However even though all this change has happened there seems to be no issues at all. The hotel that houses asylum seekers is very quiet and I've never heard of any trouble. We have a homeless hostel just outside town and there are always stories about fights and trouble there.

New arrivals from India and Africa seem to have just fitted in and you see them in the supermarket, going to church, taking their kids to the local leisure centre, putting their bins out. I can't see what anyone has to complain about and to be fair I don't hear anyone else complain. However I know that doesn't mean that people don't and that if you are an immigrant you won't be getting the brunt of that.

My husband is russian but he's been here for 31 years now since he was 17 and now speaks english with scottish accent more or less so most people wouldn't know he wasn't british. We've also spent time living in London, Prague and Dublin over the years and so I'm not sure perhaps we just have a different view of things.

I do see on social media, youtube especially a lot of racist bile that seems to pop up at the drop of a hat so it does feel like that content is being directed at people and if you didn't look at it critically then I worry it could almost brainwash / radicalise people. I just see a big disconnect with what I have heard people say online and the reality of my own suddenly quite diverse town where if anything recent immigration has brought a bit of life back to the place.

YOU took taxpayer's moneys from services funded in the UK if you went to school, university, got a trade or visited a doctor. People in your country funded your access to those services before you got your first job and were able to contribute to society what others paid thru taxes to you while growing up.

The big majority of adult legal migrants to Britain were NEVER funded by British taxpayers. Their country paid for those services/resources. And when they had to repay the money invested, they left their country, got jobs in Britain and immediately paid taxes there.

FFS!

I’m sorry to hear you feel this way, OP, when you are such a positive addition to society.

I think it’s not the brightest people who can’t distinguish between legal and illegal migration. The carers who look after my sister in law so well were all recruited from Africa and I’m very grateful to them for being here and doing such a difficult job. I still want to see failed asylum seekers and serious criminals from overseas deported, though. I’m very conscious of the state of our housing and public services. The economy is as bad as I can recall in 40 years and I don’t know how we can go on as we are. I don’t think my concerns are unfounded and, if/when better times return, I hope we can help more people.

Are the women and children raped or murdered by ‘asylum seekers’ while residing in the hotels racist? Do elaborate please

Where have I suggested that?

Please don't start weaponising violence against women and children to bolster racism.

www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/100-womens-rights-groups-warn-against-racist-weaponisation-of-vawg/

It's so sad that you feel that way, and I hate what is happening in this country.

However, I also feel sad that in telling us how you feel, you're kind of making the distinction between people like you (= the 'good' immigrants) and those people on the boats (= the 'bad' immigrants). I'm not keen on this punching down approach. I don't know your reasons for coming here, but many 'legal' immigrants could have had a good life in their home country if they hadn't made the (perfectly valid) choice to come here. Many of the people coming on boats (not all, but many) don't have that kind of luxury of choice, and are coming from dangerous and desperate situations. There is no legal immigration option open to them, and staying in their home country isn't a viable option either. They, like you, if given the chance, will work and contribute to the UK in valuable ways.

So I'd suggest putting less focus on 'I'm not like those other ones' and more on compassion. But yes, absolutely agree, immigrants make extremely valuable contributions to British life, and it's awful that people who've been here for years are being made to feel unwelcome..

You realise it is possible for people to benefit from coming here while also being net contributors?

Sorry but what has drop in vaccine take got to do with diversity?

I'm British born, the most diverse I get in my family tree is Welsh...
I married a European and so have a European surname these days.
Pre-Brexit vote, noone batted an eyelid at my name.
Post-Brexit, people asking questions about my surname. My employer all of a sudden needed to see my evidence of right to work in UK again when I got a promotion and my job title changed. They'd already seen and photocopied my passport when I started working with them several years before. Dentist also suddenly needing to check I was entitled to NHS check-up. Random people who on hearing my surname suddenly had all sorts of questions about it and exactly how did I come to have it.
Quite simply, I was being quizzed about where I came from - the question of 'but where are you really from?!'
Brexit created a problem that didn't exist in the majority of people's minds beforehand.
I see you, @Tiktakmam and completely understand what you mean. England is a very different and unwelcoming place these days.

What do the droves of retirees abroad contribute exactly? Do you also have a sentiment about that?

Do you really think that everyone should just live forever in the country that they were born in? Does that extend further to staying in your region, or your village? How incredibly dull & sad & with no imagination or innovation we would end up

And your sucidal empathy drips from you.

Can't you understand the different types of migration and the genuine concerns many currently have? Calling all people with concerns racists and xenophobes just gives actual racists and xenophobes the belief that there are more of them than there actually are and gives them the confidence to be openly racist and xenophobic. Just as the remainers did after Brexit.

This is a problem which isn't going away - thanks to multiple governments not getting a grip earlier. It can either be dealt with in a calm and fair manner, or it can be dealt with in a much worse way which is unfair to the legal, contributing migrants who have always been welcomed by the majority of the country.

@Tiktakmam , hopefully my response will be reassuring. I absolutely do have an issue with those who arrive on our shores by boat because most are young men coming from countries where attitudes to women and many things are greatly different to those you and I share. British people traditionally have an inbuilt sense of fair play and when many of our young people are struggling to obtain accommodation while these people are given housing, food, allowances etc etc while our taxes rise it just feels like we’re being taken for fools.
I hope most people would find it in their hearts to welcome genuine refugees but there will always be bigots wherever we go.
I am very open to legal migration into this country so long as we retain a veto on who we admit (should not be a criminal, should be able to support themselves etc). I really believe many people feel as I do and since you share similar values and contribute positively to society no reasonable person would take issue with you being here.
I really don’t think the strength of feeling about ‘immigrants’ which is being expressed across the country is aimed at people like you.

I am here since 2000, from an western EU country, since 2019 I also have British citizenship.

You can still hear my accent, at home we speak our mothertongue and I work for a company based in my home country so currently speak my language around 30-60% of the time, depending what I am doing each day.
We are a fairly international bunch, plenty of EU citizens who came her pre-Brexit, some are here as long as I am. We all are integrated, we see the UK as home and don't really have plans to go back, most of us have a UK passport now as well as we don't want to leave.

I start to feel strange now, I haven't come across anyone personally who makes negative comments but I do have thoughts about what I want to do when I retire (around 10 years time).
We are actively encouraging our daughter to go abroad partly for her uni course to see if she likes her other country as well and live there for a while.

We came here because my husband was headhunted, I pay tax and NI for the whole time I am here, the only benefit I ever claimed was maternity pay 7 years after coming.

I am not saying other countries are better, unfortunately even my birth country has it's share of right wing, anti-immigration politics.

If @IceLollyMolly works at a museum, she will have earned her job over intense competition. Without recruiting the best internationally, no country can maintain a position in the top leagues of expertise.

This is easy to see in the academic sector, where the UK still punches above its weight (but may not for long). Go to the public websites of Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths Schools, Departments and Faculties of major British research universities. (You may obtain a reasonable list by searching for the membership if the Russell Group, though most would add Bath, Loughborough and possibly St Andrews and/or a few others).

See how many names of the academic staff and postgraduate students are familiar British names, and see how many received their PhDs in the UK. Imagine if these Schools etc were staffed by only those people.

No matter how good they are, a huge amount of knowledge and innovation produced in this country would be lost (to say nothing of international honours of the highest order). The economic consequences would also be vast.

The same thing is true in the private tech sector, but it is not so easy to do the experiment.

I guess the point is that its 2025 now, not 2005.
You can use all the words abd arguments you want but people are now acting on emotion/instinct. It's not just a UK thing either. Its happening across Europe.

I think that the root of the problem is that this country has gone to utter shit. Everything is broken from healthcare to education to society in general. I don’t exactly know how it broke, but nevertheless we are where we are. Everything is a struggle, from getting a driving test to getting a GP appointment. There is growing discontent. And people are angry and frustrated and looking for someone to blame.

If I had strong links to another country, I’d be hot footing it out of this shit hole.

Of course the irony is that people like you have enhanced this country very significantly. We have lots of people who were born here who are wasters and criminals and they are the problem.

But I do think the boats should be stopped. We don’t have the resources to help more people. We can’t even meet our own basic needs - A&E looks like the third world with people on corridor floors etc. I bet there are classrooms in the third world outdoors with almost no facilities - but functioning better than the awful stuff that goes on in our classrooms.

We should accept immigrants who can help us - and that primarily means being a net contributor. But why any such immigrant would want to come here beats me.

I think that might be a comprehension issue on your part.

The word ‘illegal’ is used to preface ‘immigrants’ to distinguish between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. There is an important difference and most people make it crystal clear they have issue with the illegal immigrants, not the legal ones.