Immigrants but legal ones?

[Tiktakmam]

I’ve been living in the UK for 16 years, have two children, and work full-time. I consider myself integrated, living according to British values, and respecting this country. I look after myself and my home, and I try to contribute positively to the community.

Yet, many of us — especially from Eastern Europe — don’t feel entirely safe with the ongoing issues around illegal migrant boats. Even though we are legal residents, I’ve noticed growing dissatisfaction from some neighbours. When I mention that I’m from Eastern Europe, I often hear comments like, “Of course you are…” — basically implying I’m not British.

This makes me feel like I’ve somehow “brought these boats” here, as if I’m just another part of the immigrant problem. Seeing flags and attitudes that suggest “immigrants go home” is disheartening.

I also feel somewhat less confident around British people, especially in areas with mostly locals and fewer immigrants. For example, when I travel to campsites or smaller towns, I sometimes feel looked at as untrustworthy. Luckily, in London I feel much less like this.

Post-Brexit, it feels like the country has changed in ways that make life less secure, not just for immigrants but for everyone. It’s heartbreaking that all migrants, legal or not, are often dropped into one pot and judged as a single group.

I keep wondering — after so many years of people from other countries contributing to making the UK a brighter, more vibrant place, why does it feel like the country has been going downhill over time?

I feel so heartbroken, because I understand that the UK will never truly be my home, as I was not born here. Yet it hurts to realize that, with every passing year, it feels more and more like I will never be fully welcome.

Why has it gone so wrong on a broader scale? How can we have a healthier, safer society for everyone, while respecting the law and supporting integration?

I hope we can have a conversation about this that goes beyond fear and politics, and focuses on community, fairness, and safety for all residents.
Im just curious, in this era of migrant boats and heightened tension around immigration, how do you perceive or feel about other immigrants, even those who are legal residents? Does this climate affect the way you interact with them or how you feel about other immigrants, especially in less multicultural towns? What does your family of friends say?

Yep, we're back to 'nobody should ever leave the country where they were born because it's not ethical' argument. Which is a thin veil.

@JudithDunbar , do you deny that the number of instances of racist attacks against people has risen? How do you feel about events in the Daily Mail article posted upthread?

Yes just as valid, equally so. Although more pertinent to the country they are wanting to enter, its for them to decide if they are willing to give their jobs away to Brits when they could invest in and train up their own indigenous population for those positions.

I am not British but have flown both those flags for sporting events.

I bet you’re a white person. The rise of the Nazis before WW2 wasn’t anything like it is in the UK. I’ve read the books. You need to read some and stop being dramatic. Racism has always existed and hasn’t worsened. I’d say it’s bad but not as bad as it used to be. Speaking as someone who has experienced racism.

It isn't about 'giving jobs away' though. If someone is in the country legally and can legally work there, then the matter of jobs becomes a matter of who is best - has the best qualifications and experience, puts in the best application, presents best at interview.

Why would you want to bar an employer from choosing the best and settle for second best? If local nationals aren't cutting it, maybe they should ask themselves why and up their game. It's a competitive world out there.

It may not be as bad as it was mid 20th century, but it absolutely is much worse now than it was in the early 2000s.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/racial-and-religious-based-offences-drive-increase-hate-crime-cases#:~:text=Since%20July%20to%20September%20in,or%20religiously%20flagged%20hate%20crimes.

Silicon Valley with only Americans. Pretty much of a shit show. Why aren't they training their local talent?

Of course Trump is trying to change the rules. But until he does, it is still valid for anyone to work there, as long as they follow the rules.

My DH is an immigrant, although was naturalised in 2006. He's never faced any problem ever, except for perhaps a little pub banter (which the woke have outlawed).

But for all of those countries they will only let you in if you have very specific skills that they want. So the Brit gets a new life and the country gets the talent it wants. Is this unreasonable?

Agree. I think it’s a far better option for countries to adopt a point system like Canada and Australia, so we are only accepting people with the skills we need, and who aren’t going to be a drain on our finances here. I have relatives in Canada, and back about 20 years ago, applied to emigrate there. I failed on the points system, despite having a grandmother there, and an aunt who had actually offered me a job til I got settled. I was disappointed, but accepted that it is what it is, and I wasn’t someone they thought would bring any benefit to their country.

What about the talent they are taking away from this country?
By your thinking they really should be using that talent here.

The OP has a skill, and multiple degrees.

Well yes that would be preferable; but I can’t chain people up here can I? (Although there are some people I would like to chain up!).
My point is if we lose people with valuable skills to other countries, we don’t want to be letting in people with no talents.
Do you genuinely think that is unreasonable?

I am white but my now adult daughter isn't so I have experienced racism aimed at me (n- lover etc). There are a lot of things happening now that remind me of the years before ww2 but I'm not going to argue with you about it.

My observation is that many societies don’t seem to mind low levels of immigration. However, once you reach the numbers you now see in many western countries the attitudes start to drastically change.
Humans are for the most part tribal. Then add that to the fact racism is a universal trait that appears in every society Not everyone is tribal and not everyone is racist but a significant amount in every country are.
That is why across multiple countries right now immigrants are starting to feel unsafe.
I am from what was once considered a poor country. Now it’s a rich place we have inward immigration. You can sense the change in attitudes towards immigrants. It’s getting hostile now tbh. This isn’t a British issue. This is happening all over Europe and further afield.

There's a thread running on mm about how the majority of asylum seekers are violent sex offenders. Its utterly scary what is being said in that thread. I doubt any of the edl wannabees there will want to check passport, if youve paid taxes, speak English. This is not a time that I feel ok about leaving the house

Tangent, but the best brie by a mile is Sharpham from Devon. Absolutely delicious, better than anything Somerset or France have to offer 😋

tbf, a loud MNer contingent believes ALL males are sex offenders who just haven't been caught yet.

I’m in ireland and the amount of legal immigration in such a short period of time of astonishing. 25 yeats ago we were largely homogeneous. Now when i go my local supermarket i am often one of a few Irish people - most are newly arrived. It gives me a strange, lost feeling. Like when people around you are mostly similar to you and have a similar outlook you feel a connection to each other. When people have arrived from all over the world and are speaking their own languages to each other it is alienating.

some people try to shut down people who object to the pace of change by saying Irish people have traditionally emigrated. I know that is true but it doesn’t stop how I feel.

I think it easier if immigrants are culturally similar to us e.g. support women’s rights and the rights of gay people or a similar outlook on life. Immigrants should be willing to integrate- to be happy for their children to marry Irish people, not separating themselves.

Ireland changed slowly for hundreds and hundreds of years with waves of different people arriving at different times and bringing new parts to the culture - now suddenly there is a rush from all over the world of anyone and everyone. We are becoming just some other ‘global-land’ - not really ireland anymore.

And i know immigrants are mostly good people just trying to do the best for their families - but i still feel sad about the sudden change. I think i could cope with a slower pace of change where immigrants had the chance to integrate and become Irish.

The thing is though if so many people are moving around and are mixed in the wider family (and by that I mean siblings living in other countries, children born elsewhere etc) then that is surely the effect of globalisation as with free movement of goods and services you also get quite a lot of movement of people.
It does not mean that culture and values need to be eroded, they just change with the changing times. For example, for us English and “British”, we also have erosion due to more autonomy in Wales and Scotland, which I believe is a good thing, but notions of Britishness are perhaps not just outdated because of loads of immigrants from all over the world. Times have changed. One can still define one’s contemporary cultural and shared values.

How about gratitude being the basis of it all, grateful that we live in a safe country with free healthcare and education where we can speak our minds? I know it is not perfect, but it is still better than most other nation states in the rest of the world. We are lacking in gratitude and respect for our own institutions and the people we have voted for, across the board actually, to represent us. Nobody likes the world “pride” when it comes to Britishness - but gratitude, humility, respect for what we do have, respect for law and order and one’s locality, and each other should be a good start. The recent divisions that have been sown are hateful and it is not all bad here. Would also be good if people shed the entitlement that they are somehow better or worth more than others.

I’m in ireland and the amount of legal immigration in such a short period of time of astonishing. 25 yeats ago we were largely homogeneous

I think this is bit of the crux of why the blow up, even in parts of UK. I think it is reasonable to say that big changes with short span (and 20 years is short span) would bring up some discontent anywhere in the world. I say that as an immigrant and a part of the problem essentially. Especially when these changes happened over hard economic times.

This is absolutely right.

Hate xenophobia, certainly, but please don’t try and make out it’s just a British phenomenon. If you think other European countries are a paradise of racial and cultural tolerance you honestly need to get out more

There are huge and frightening world events going on and increasing pressure from migration just now. A lot of people on both sides of the situation are very scared and governments need to face up to - and even anticipate- real and perceived issues. It’s their job.

I dont think it's even been over the last 20 years. I think is been over the past 5 or so years since the 'Boris wave' of immigration that has just skyrocketed. Especially when it looks like so many people have got visas so they can work as delivery drivers/ shop workers etc and can't possibly be highly skilled. Many people who arrived on care visas are now not working in care but there has been piss poor management of them.

A google search said that the main immigrants to Ireland are from the UK and Ukraine.
When they say the UK, do they mean from Northern Ireland?