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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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10
myplace · 30/08/2025 19:52

As a woman who shaves regularly, I don’t see any similarity between my stubble and that of a trans identifying man. Me at my stubbliest, any woman at her stubbliest, just bears no resemblance to a man attempting to look feminine. I’m really sorry, digidestined, that it’s been upsetting for you.

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 21:16

RingoJuice · 30/08/2025 19:50

I have been diagnosed with PCOS as well and I’m fucking offended you’d even compare
what we have to deal with to a man’s GROOMING RITUAL.

I have never been made to feel lesser than by other women, until just now. How dare you compare us this way?

And again. I didn't compare grooming rituals to men. How dare you deliberately misrepresent MY EXPERIENCE to fit your agenda.

I said that's a woman with PCOS, other women have been telling me my stubble and thick facial hair makes me less of a woman my whole life. That hurts. Seeing other women say stubble & shaving = man hurts. I'm telling you I'm hurt by the comparisons other women have drawn between me and men my whole adult life.

It's not my fault you can't understand that I'm not comparing you to a man, that really is your problem not mine.

How dare I indeed.

RingoJuice · 30/08/2025 21:40

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 21:16

And again. I didn't compare grooming rituals to men. How dare you deliberately misrepresent MY EXPERIENCE to fit your agenda.

I said that's a woman with PCOS, other women have been telling me my stubble and thick facial hair makes me less of a woman my whole life. That hurts. Seeing other women say stubble & shaving = man hurts. I'm telling you I'm hurt by the comparisons other women have drawn between me and men my whole adult life.

It's not my fault you can't understand that I'm not comparing you to a man, that really is your problem not mine.

How dare I indeed.

You’ve no right to bring this subject into a conversation about gender dysphoric men because it’s absolutely not relevant.

ticktickticktickBOOM · 30/08/2025 22:39

More American children get killed every year in school by other children than by terrorists.
Americans will NEVER give up their dangerous weapons.

More English children get killed every year by the family dog than by terrorists.
The English will NEVER give up their dangerous dogs.

The world is inhabited by morons.

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 22:43

RingoJuice · 30/08/2025 21:40

You’ve no right to bring this subject into a conversation about gender dysphoric men because it’s absolutely not relevant.

I have every right to talk about my own health conditions and my own lived experiences.

You have no right to tell me otherwise.

Ratafia · 30/08/2025 22:44

Tiredofwhataboutery · 30/08/2025 18:10

Given that only 1% of the population is trans, the idea that they carry out 13% of the mass shootings is hugely concerning, no?

I'm more concerned at the massively larger proportion of straight males who are mass shooters.

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 22:45

RingoJuice · 30/08/2025 21:40

You’ve no right to bring this subject into a conversation about gender dysphoric men because it’s absolutely not relevant.

And you're right, none of this is relevant. That is exactly the point I was trying to make to @CohensDiamondTeeth but they weren't listening.

This thread is about school shootings and Americas problem with gun violence and you're all here squabbling about gender ideology and the FWR board! Derailed by the trans obsession as usual!

JudgeJ · 30/08/2025 22:54

FenderStrat · 29/08/2025 13:16

The American NRA will undoubtedly claim that, ' the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.'

But I've always thought, what about a law that stops the bad guy getting a gun in the first place?

The NRA and its afficionados are the reason I can't be bothered to look at stories about mass murders in the States, if they don't care enough to do something about it then why should I ?

Tiredofwhataboutery · 30/08/2025 22:57

Ratafia · 30/08/2025 22:44

I'm more concerned at the massively larger proportion of straight males who are mass shooters.

Well I think we all know that men commit the vast majority of violent crime. It’s why women are so keen to retain single sex spaces.

OonaStubbs · 30/08/2025 23:53

How would a law stop bad guys who don't obey the laws that already exist, let alone new laws?

How would banning guns in the US work any more than banning alcohol in the US did? If there's a demand for guns, and there is, people will find ways to get them and criminals will make a fortune out of that demand, just like Al Capone etc did during prohibition.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:09

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 12:18

Actually I'm not a TRA and I am a firm believer in single sex spaces and third spaces for safety and dignity for all. The disgusting statements I refer to in FWR are not calling someone a man, of course man is not a slur don't be ridiculous! It's the comments calling them mutilated, sick, painting them all as sex offenders etc. The Swiss study is the study that everyone claims proved that trans women retain a male pattern criminality, the fact you alluded to in your post. The study author has publicly stated that the findings have been misrepresented and the study report itself found that to be true in only one of two groups of trans women. For some reason the decades they transitioned in made a difference to their outcomes. This is how you are detailing a thread about school shootings into one about gender ideology, can you not see that? This conversation is literally that in action!

I am very against misrepresenting minorities as dangerous groups because of the actions of a few in that minority and that is very much what happens with transgender people here on MN. It's not dissimilar to the distrust of Muslims and rampant Islamophobia that came about after the terrorist attacks in the naughties. It's wrong and it's dehumanising and no amount of saying "well it's rude but it's right" makes it ok.

painting them all as sex offenders etc.

I've been on FWR for several years in one guise or another and I have never, ever, ever seen anyone say they are "all" sex offenders. Ever. You made that up. I don't know why you need to lie. And to exaggerate. But it's sad you need to stoop to that level.

Also, males are not a 'minority'. Even if they're wearing a dress. They are not a 'minority'. You don't get to pull 1% of males aside, put them in a dress and rebadge them as a 'minority'. They are still the oppressor sex class. And for a so-called 'minority', they've had enormous power to change definitions, to change social rules, to change womens rights. In less than a generation. That's not a weak or vulnerable 'minority'. That is the patriarchy writ large.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:19

Bobbingtons · 30/08/2025 13:25

Lies! Although exactly what we would expect from you.
Just had to look at the first quoted case. Uvalde.... Rumours that the shooter was Trans were circulated online within days by right wing commentators and Christian nationalists. These narratives always appear within hours of a shooting because extremist groups like the Heritage Foundation are actively spreading false rumors in order to demonise trans people.
Actual research shows trans people are statistically less likely to be mass shoters.
The other stat that there have been 4 school additions by trans people this year seems to be made up as there appears to be no evidence for this.

Fact Check: Majority of US mass shooters are cis men, not transgender or non-binary people | Reuters https://share.google/4atfRsODKHIJzfFjO

Although exactly what we would expect from you.

Excuse me? Who are you? I don't believe we've ever conversed before, how would you know what to expect from me? What a strange personal attack when we've never even had a conversation before.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:22

MyGreyStork · 30/08/2025 13:29

Breakdown of mass shooters:

Straight male: 98%
White straight male: 57%
Trans: 13%

So what I’m getting is that straight males make up 98% of mass shooters…

It's not about 'straight' vs 'gay'. You are confusing sexual orientation, with gender identity. Trans people are straight or gay, too.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:30

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 17:50

Really? Could have fooled me with that "FWR is anti-trans" lie. Not a lie, my opinion and a lot of other people's opinion. I'm entitled to have an opinion on the matter just as much you, however much you disagree or don't like it.

But this is an outright lie! This is never said on FWR. This is an outright lie. I have seen and reported several posts actually stating this, thankfully they were deleted. There is an abundance of mocking which certainly doesn't denote compassion. Lots of "waving their moobs about" and "literal violence!😂" type posts.

You can't or won't see that young people with trans identities may have mental health issues. Don't be ridiculous, of course they can have mental health issues, anyone can. I don't believe that being trans predisposes them to becoming mass shooter like you seem to be implying it does.

Predatory men are predatory and need kept away from those they predate on (women and children). Of course they should, and you can deny it until you are blue in the face but there is a clear feeling in FWR that simply being transgender makes trans women predatory.

In terms of misogyny, yes having deragotory terms for women you disagree with 'transmaidens' is misogynistic. I also participated in a thread about trans women breast feeding, one particularly unpleasant poster listed not being able to achieve a full supply as one of a long list of reasons why trans women shouldn't be enabled to breast feed. I agreed with almost all of their points but said not being able to achieve a full supply was irrelevant because even if they could achieve a full supply it would still be wrong and unsafe, also to have the inability to produce a full supply bandied about as a reason someone shouldn't be allowed to breastfeed was hurtful to me and other mums who were unable to produce a full supply for their babies and are upset and feeling inadequate about it. Breastfeeding is a very sensitive topic. I was quite firmly told my experience didn't matter and that "all the facts must be included regardless of who they hurt". Well fuck that, disregarding women's feelings on their very female experiences is not feminist. I certainly didn't feel "centred" that day, just like the days when they're all banging on about stubble and being unfeminine looking proof that trans women don't care about actually being seen as women because they put no effort in when women with PCOS are dealing with this daily and feel unfeminine and this narrative is hurtful to them, like me. I was quite swiftly told my feelings on that matter didn't matter either. I would also call that quite misogynistic. And no, I don't consider tolerating trans women and leaving them be in a dignified manner "centring men", I find that assertion ridiculous.

So fuck FWR. It's not pro women unless those women agree. It's not respectful or compassionate. These are my opinions and I'm perfectly entitled to have them whether you like them or believe them to be true.

You have quite clearly misrepresented many things I have said and labelled me a misogynist amongst other things. It's transparent and very on brand. Like when FWR posters@ read something like trans women deserve dignity and safety just like everyone else and reply with 'Why do you hate women!?' total nonsense.

I have seen and reported several posts actually stating this, thankfully they were deleted.

I call bullshit on that. It's strange how many people lie and say these posts are made and deleted, yet at least some of us would definitely have seen them before they were deleted and none of us have. We all can tell what/who was deleted and what was said in the sense of the thread and the comments that follow, yet strangely, only you and those like you have ever 'seen' them.

No. Bullshit.

And why tf should feminists have to be 'respectful' and 'compassionate' of males? Your comment reeks of tone policing and feminists should be sweet and respectful of males who want to take our rights. Well f*ck being 'respectful' or polite 'or 'compassionate' to those men! Women are angry and we have a RIGHT TO BE ANGRY! No one should be telling us we should be 'respectful' or 'compassionate' of our oppressors. Who t f does anyone think they are to demand that of us? I am so DONE with being 'respectful' and 'compassionate' to the male oppressor sex class. And I believe I speak for many if not most other feminists here. We will NOT be told to be 'respectful' and 'compassionate' to the male oppressor sex class. So stop tone policing angry feminists.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:33

RingoJuice · 30/08/2025 18:07

when women with PCOS are dealing with this daily and feel unfeminine and this narrative is hurtful to them, like me

Are you really comparing PCOS with a trans woman’s grooming ritual? Really?

There is no low they won't stoop to. One of my closest friends has PCOS. It is nothing even remotely the same as trans women. Not even remotely. That was an absolutely disgusting comment. These people really get in the sewer. It's like there just are no standards anymore on their side, there just is no line they will not cross.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:37

Ratafia · 30/08/2025 22:44

I'm more concerned at the massively larger proportion of straight males who are mass shooters.

Why does it matter if a male is straight or gay?

It's a male.

RingoJuice · 31/08/2025 05:48

Digidestined · 30/08/2025 22:45

And you're right, none of this is relevant. That is exactly the point I was trying to make to @CohensDiamondTeeth but they weren't listening.

This thread is about school shootings and Americas problem with gun violence and you're all here squabbling about gender ideology and the FWR board! Derailed by the trans obsession as usual!

His gender identity is a contributing factor, indeed could be the largest factor. Why wouldn’t we discuss this very real and emerging problem?

It is very relevant and you are trying to downplay it for whatever reason. If gender dysphoria/transgenderism was declared a mental illness, he’d never have been able to purchase those weapons.

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 08:26

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 03:33

There is no low they won't stoop to. One of my closest friends has PCOS. It is nothing even remotely the same as trans women. Not even remotely. That was an absolutely disgusting comment. These people really get in the sewer. It's like there just are no standards anymore on their side, there just is no line they will not cross.

I myself have PCOS, can't you read? I don't think I am comparable to a trans woman, but I do find all the comments about stubble = man, look he hasn't even bothered to shave his face of course he's a man! Hurtful because people have said those things to me throughout my life. I am also not the only woman with PCOS who has complained about these comments on the board and asked for posters to stop saying these things.

Like I said to Ringo, I have every right to talk about my own health conditions, how they have affected me and how people have treated me because of them. You have no right to call me a disgusting person, or from the sewer because of MY OWN LIVED EXPERIENCES. So take your aggressive personal attacks, which are right on brand, and LEAVE ME ALONE.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 08:52

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 08:26

I myself have PCOS, can't you read? I don't think I am comparable to a trans woman, but I do find all the comments about stubble = man, look he hasn't even bothered to shave his face of course he's a man! Hurtful because people have said those things to me throughout my life. I am also not the only woman with PCOS who has complained about these comments on the board and asked for posters to stop saying these things.

Like I said to Ringo, I have every right to talk about my own health conditions, how they have affected me and how people have treated me because of them. You have no right to call me a disgusting person, or from the sewer because of MY OWN LIVED EXPERIENCES. So take your aggressive personal attacks, which are right on brand, and LEAVE ME ALONE.

Edited

The person who is being aggressive is you. Calm down.

"which are right on brand"

'Right on brand' for what? Have I talked to you before? No. Just that comment, alone, signifies you see feminists as the enemy.

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 11:46

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 08:52

The person who is being aggressive is you. Calm down.

"which are right on brand"

'Right on brand' for what? Have I talked to you before? No. Just that comment, alone, signifies you see feminists as the enemy.

Edited

We have conversed before, twice, I recognise your username. You were very shouty at me then too with lots of caps and lots of personal insults like this time too. I would call "lowest of the low, get in the sewer, no depths they won't stoop to" aggressive. I would also call it a personal attack.

So yes, on brand.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 12:29

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 11:46

We have conversed before, twice, I recognise your username. You were very shouty at me then too with lots of caps and lots of personal insults like this time too. I would call "lowest of the low, get in the sewer, no depths they won't stoop to" aggressive. I would also call it a personal attack.

So yes, on brand.

Edited

You appear to be lying yet again, as I just checked my posts and I have never conversed with you at all, ever. So you've clearly got me confused with someone else.

And the only using lots of caps is you.

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 12:44

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 12:29

You appear to be lying yet again, as I just checked my posts and I have never conversed with you at all, ever. So you've clearly got me confused with someone else.

And the only using lots of caps is you.

Here you go, this is one of your deleted comments towards me (several were deleted for being personal attacks) and another one where you can still see that you directly quoted me. So we have spoken before. There is also a screenshot of someone else's post asking you to stop attacking other women on the thread as it was unpleasant and not very feminist.

So stop lying, and stop calling me a liar when I have been truthful. It's not a good look.

School shooting again
School shooting again
School shooting again
RufustheFactualReindeer · 31/08/2025 13:22

Those photos really don’t prove anything Digidestined

except that black cat quoted you once

Digidestined · 31/08/2025 14:40

RufustheFactualReindeer · 31/08/2025 13:22

Those photos really don’t prove anything Digidestined

except that black cat quoted you once

It does prove that we've spoken to eachother before though doesn't it?

Something she vehemently denies and is calling me a liar for mentioning.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 31/08/2025 14:43

Im not so sure

honestly all i can see is that she quoted you, that doesn’t mean she was talking to you

but seriously don’t let the back and forth between the both of you upset you, i know thats an easy thing for me to say but much harder to do

its a really emotive subject