To think that surely Rayner has to go.

[Blankscreen]

Well well well.

So now it emerges that Rayner rearranged her property affairs and declared to HMRC that her new flat in Brighton is her main residence and saved £40k on the SDLT bill as a result.

She has then apparently declared to the local councils the complete opposite.

I'm sure slimeball Kier will defend and say it was perfectly legal blah blah blah.

Not to mention she has a grace and favour house funded by tax payers in London as her constituency office is so far away. Yet she 'lives' in Brighton - surely she could just commute that distance like may others do every day.

Surely she has to go.

What is the evidence for this PPE fraud?

Do a quick google search it won’t take you long. I wonder where you’ve been if you’ve not read or heard about it to be honest.

It could be, but the story doesn’t actually make an allegation. If you look at the road in question, there are substantially larger detached properties over the road from the one whose sale price is referred to. That 312.5k property is a 3 bed semi in acceptable condition. AR’s is apparently a 4 bed detached with modifications. On my own road the houses vary by around 100k, and none of them are detached. A house is worth what someone will pay for it - AR’s is modified for her son which could mean all kinds of things and facilities too.

These kinds of stories are why I think she should go, because now she’s a massive distraction whether she’s done anything wrong or not.

I’m not her greatest fan, but I don’t think it’s fair to say she’s defrauded her son’s trust of money. The Trust is almost certainly there to ensure that he’s looked after for the rest of his life. Including after his parents have died. To that end the Trust owning the adapted property he lives in makes sense. You or I might have just transferred the property into the Trust, now or later, for nothing. But the parent’s divorce undoubtedly means that they couldn’t afford to do that. As for the value of the property, one agent valued it today at between £530k and £617k. Given the date of the actual valuation was at Covid peak, and that they (might) have done improvements the £650k might be there or there abouts. It’s certainly not the biggest issue.

The real problem is Angela Rayners subsequent purchase of another property and the provision of, if one is charitable, incorrect or, if it was her speaking and the boot was on the other foot, false information to the conveyancer. That’s compounded by the frankly ridiculous attempt to deny, then blame her advisors, and then try and involve the Trust when caught out. And underlined by her apparent poor decision making and careless approach to her tax affairs. Those advisors that have been named have issued clear and unequivocal statements that they were not involved. And the other ‘trust specialists’ are, as yet unknown.

Wasn’t it Alistair Cambell who said that for any minister or political leader, once you become the news it’s time to go?

I don’t need to Google. I’ve looked at plenty of this stuff time and again. There’s no evidence of Tory fraud (if you’re going to mention Mone, the then Tory government started civil proceedings to recover the money; whether she’s guilty of fraud criminally is an active case and shouldn’t be speculated about).

Yes, I read the story once someone put up a gift link. It does seem mischievous: the article admits there are similarly priced houses around AR’s, even if some others are lower priced.

I think so - we’re in witch hunt territory now.

I’m always up for an online nose around houses and I think I can find at least two properties in the same postcode, detached, that sold at around the time she bought hers - reportedly a decade ago - both around 300k then so not unreasonable that they could be worth twice that now. I won’t share the link as it feels a bit stalky but wasn’t that difficult to find.

Probably, and I agree with whoever it was.

It stinks to high heaven… and let’s wait and see what comes of the case. But I do find it interesting that this along with other terrible things are forgotten by many. Like the care home fiasco. And the horror of Grenfell Tower…just to name a few. To suggest that what Angela Rayner has done is in this league is laughable and disgusting.

I think what irks me is that she didn’t just say ‘I made a mistake’. I don’t think she’s trying to defraud HMRC - that would be utterly stupid and she clearly isn’t that. She’s had to reveal personal information to be able to talk publicly and that can’t be comfortable. I don’t even particularly blame her for doing that - she has to provide for all her children, and therefore she needs to keep her job. But all of this could have been avoided. It’s so frustrating, Labour are just really not good at politics.

I think you’re admitting that there is no evidence of PPE fraud by Tory ministers or MPs.

Tory PPE fraud is probably the biggest political falsehood ever.

Whether the previous government could have done more about care homes given the pressures, we’ll never know. Lucky for Labour they didn’t have to face such difficult circumstances and decisions. And on the strength of the present government’s performance so far, it’s lucky for everyone else too.

This isn’t Covid though is it
This isn’t a once in a lifetime never happened in a hundred years what the hell do we do scenario is it !

The two are not even remotely comparable

What would AR do if she is sacked?
Shes not been in the job long enough to have developed much of a knowledge base. What company would want a sacked minister? Or does she stay an MP and carry on?

Yep

She clearly defrauded her sons trust
No honest person would double the value of a property in their son’s trust fund and then take that money to buy a flat for themselves.

She’s clearly a fraudster and a liar.

After whats come out today I simply cannot believe how anyone still things she’s blameless

From interviews in her constituency it doesn’t sound like they’ll vote her in again

There’s no evidence she defrauded anyone, nor that she inflated the value of her properly. Precisely nothing has come out today - a little bit of mischief that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Don’t believe everything you read.

She would remain an MP.

The article doesn’t support that. It’s hinting at an angle that isn’t there, on its own facts.

I think Rayner’s a loudmouth who’s come unstuck spectacularly, but only because of the stamp duty issue.

As well as deputy leader of the Labour Party. If Starmer wanted to he could ‘sack’ her from her ministerial / deputy PM roles. But the deputy leader of the party position is an elected one. And he can’t do anything about that. So Labour could find themselves in the embarrassing position of having a deputy leader with no government portfolio. Starmer’s worse nightmare. His reticence to sack her shows he doesn’t really have power over the party. I know that’s stating the obvious!

Yes, good point.

I know you and I are politically opposed, but I really respect your approach of sticking to the facts.

Eta: not that I think Rayner being a loudmouth is a fact! But hopefully you know what I mean.

Thank you. I appreciate that.👍

ETA: Yes, I know what you mean, albeit that we disagree about the state of AR’s mouth.

Taking £80k extra out of her sons trust fund is fraud