Can anyone help me understand this social situation not sure what to do!

[Alysskea]

Honestly I feel like I’m in high school all over again trying to navigate the world of other toddler mums. Just wondering if anyone can help me work out what the heck is going on and if I’m the problem.

I take my 2yo to a sports session every week on my day off. She absolutely loves it. Afterwards the mums all go to a cafe and we’ve been tagging along because a) they invited us the first week and then said oh we come here every week b) she really enjoys going with the other kids and c) saves me having to try and feed her when we get home.

My issue is, these mums seem to go out of their way to exclude not only me but my child as well. Of course they all know each other better than they know me and I’m not asking for them to go out of their way to be overly friendly or anything, but we usually sit there for an hour and a half and they’ll talk to each other and ignore me completely. Don’t think they’ve ever asked me a question about my life. Fine, whatever. They also exclude my child! Last week one of them took out colouring pages and pens and handed them to each child except mine, and that’s just one example!

I am not sure what to make of it tbh. I have a few working theories

• they never actually wanted me there and asked me along to be polite. But this seems weird as I don’t know why they’d do this or how our presence takes away from their enjoyment of the experience
• they look down on me as I’m slightly less middle class than them. Honestly I’m highly educated and have the same job as one of them but I’m not quite on their level finance wise. You can tell that by looking at me. This makes me sound class obsessed but honestly I’m grasping at straws here.
• they for some reason don’t like me or my child’s personality. But again, I don’t understand why especially as they’ve never spoken to us!
• they’re just really cliquey and treat everyone this way. But I can’t understand how a grown ass woman would do that. It’s just nice to include people who YOU have invited out with you.

Honestly I find it quite upsetting taking my child along and seeing her excluded. She’s so good natured and describes them all as her ‘friends’ when they basically don’t interact with her because their parents have given them all toys and activities to do and not her. But she’d also be really sad if I said we couldn’t go eat with her friends anymore. It would make her even sadder if we didn’t go to her class anymore.

i am sure I’ll get crap for this post and get called paranoid and entitled, but I honestly just feel kind of puzzled and saddened by the whole thing. I am neurodivergent (I have ‘severe’ ADHD that is not medicated currently). But I generally get on well with people and have a broad group of friends including neurotypical middle class mums who seem to think we’re not beneath them lol. This just comes across to me as plain rudeness and seems kind of deranged 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Had this so many times and all I can say is well done for sticking it out for 2/3 months! I just couldn’t bring myself to do that!

Seriously I am as weirded out as you. They pretended they hadn’t heard. We were all sat on a table together. They watched the whole thing unfold. Continued to ignore. Was bizarre.

Fuck ‘em. You’re better than this.

This is the worst. Same thing happened to me once, I never went back.
In all honesty, it could be a mix of all the things you’ve listed - though not necessarily collectively as a group. What advice would you give your child about making new friends?
Yes, it requires effort on your part and - to a certain extent - ingratiating yourself somewhat but there comes a time when you have to question if these are the types of people you want to be friends with?
In your situation, I’d actively and purposefully try one more time with them. It genuinely could be - for some of them at least - that they honestly don’t realise. They’re distracted, too busy wrapped up in conversation or just the normalities of their usual, routine, get-together. It could also be that some of them just aren’t confident being the one in their group to bring you in and start the conversation.
if you try and it’s still the same . . . surely these aren’t the only mums/parents at the group? There must be others (also on the peripheral of this clique)? Reach out to one of them - do your own thing.

Reminds me of years ago - we were new to the area, after fleeing DV, so no local friends (and no, I didn't ever mention that)- took my 2 year old child to a local advertised ' Fun Play & Stay' group - I made efforts to chat generally to the other mums, joined in the 'activities' - even eventually asked the organiser's to help us, as we were totally being ignored - eg asked another mum 'how old is your child, he looks so happy' - answer was '2' then turned her back on me - 1st & last time we went there - NO help from the organiser's of the 'Fun' group' - luckily my babe was too young to realise that they weren't worth bothering about and he played with toys by himself - why are so many people still so nasty / uncaring- where is the kindness??
A simple 'Hi, what's your kiddies name' or similar would have made so much difference. Not asking for lifelong commitments.
Sad to hear that not much has changed over the years.. BTW, my 'child' has grown up to be a kind and generous young man, he will befriend anyone who seems alone at college etc - Please be kind, and educate your children to also be kind - doesn't take much, just a 'Hello' can be enough.

After our last move DH joined a woodworking club. He very much enjoyed learning how do use a lathe, but he stopped attending the club after a few months because he didn't make any friends.
He was disheartened, because he'd hoped to find a friendship group - when he first came across them it seemed like a good fit.
What he didn't do, when it didn't work out, was seek an online space where strangers called the existing club members: selfish, rude, entitled, horrid, weird, vile, as well as some much more offensive terms, all of which have been used of these mums above.
It's an unpleasant and awkward situation for OP to have ended up in. Friendship is a spontaneous, organic thing, and while we can put the groundwork in noone can force it to grow.

There is no need to tear into other women when it doesn't work out.

Yet you sat on and continued to try to join this group week after week. Yes, they are rude, of course they are, but they’re trying to telling you to back off.

Since this post, have you gone/planning to go to the cafe “with them” again?

Well I think you are amazing and the kind of mum I would not only want to sit next to and have join but the one I’d want to make plans with and we could even alternate Sat dinner plans so we don’t have to cook/feed them. The joy of these groups is then this friend group also turning into individual friends well the possibility and would you want that. Rude snobs. On the other hand if they like their little clique how else do they tell you that they’d rather it be them. I had this and it was worse because I would be taking my step child who I met at 2yrs so had no birth teething crawling stories. I could actually not believe how people would not ask me about me even just out of politeness. Consider joining a new baby activity with other mums. Good luck.it really does feel like high school hey. But remember it’s not. You have alternatives and u don’t have to sit and grit it and you’ll be teaching your child a message you can share with her one day that if you don’t like your life make a plan. All my best. Ps I wish u knew a hot famous guy you could arrange to meet you there as an old friend and watch them 😂

How big are the tables? For 4 adults and 6 children I’m imagining long canteen style?

On the days when they joined you and your daughter, can you remember if there were there other seating options? Or was the cafe quite full?

Do you ever initiate conversation, or do you just sit and passively wait for them to talk to you?

Are you twelve years old?

Interested to know why you ask that? And the point being that women who purposely exclude make someone feel like they are in high school /12yrs old. I really am interested in wanting to know.

This is all very strange

and I suspect that if we had witnessed these coffee meet ups, it would out a very very different slant on the entire story

And yet week after week you persist OP?

If you aren't 12 years old, your post is seriously creepy with your fantasies about things like 'we could even alternate Sat dinner plans so we don’t have to cook/feed them' and 'I wish u knew a hot famous guy you could arrange to meet you there as an old friend and watch them'.

The internet is full of weirdos, even on mumsnet.

Bit harsh on OP...she's only trying to fathom out why this was her experience, which does seem odd. It's quite a self- reflective post, imo

Ugh I hate people like this. It’s like they have never got past the senior school bitchfest.
When my DD was a toddler I ended up involved in a middle class “mums who brunch” group like this. They didn’t do it to me ( even though I was comparatively poor) but I realised they were being subtly nasty to one other in the group. It really put me off hanging out, so I started distancing myself by developing new routines. And I deliberately chose a different pre school.
This is a good time of year for you to do the same as September is kind of a new start and new groups will be opening up.
Dont put up with their unkind shit any more.

I went through similar stuff in my kids primary school. My advice is the longer you go the worse you will feel. Your kid will be affected too and the kids may be mean to her as well. I joined several outside school activities and they made real lasting friendships. Do not put yourself through that shit. Not sure if it happens everywhere but they do behave like mean girls in secondary school. I was in the U.K. where I have heard this happens a lot.

Point taken. Yes it was an over-generalisation, and every group of friends is different.

But again for the sake of clarity - if you're referring to my comment (since you quoted it), it wasn't exactly 'tearing into other women'. Unless you find the term Queen Bee offensive, I guess, and the whole concept of 'online strangers' passing comment on a forum. In which case, best you steer clear of MN.

Great point to make with the more forceful posters though.

I mean… ok haha. What exactly do you suspect me of covering up 😂

I’m beginning to think there’s some law on MN that at least one person has to question the OP’s version of events. The irony is, they can’t see they are just conforming to a tedious stereotype, same as the “mean girls” at the cafe!

Watch the first series of Motherland - it will all become clear.