Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be devasted the roundabout in my town has a crappy 'flag' painted on?

1000 replies

Liesmorelies · 24/08/2025 21:19

I nearly threw up when I saw it this morning - what a horrible shock.

It's a very small town in the Midlands near a city. Yes it's ex-mining but does reasonable ok now, not deprived eg no contextual offers for my dc for uni, but not massively desirable or trendy. Has a Labour MP now but hasn't always in recent years. Voted for Brexit but only just. In 2019 more people voted against Tories AND Brexit than for them - split the vote so we still got a Tory, but still.

In other words, I did not expect this. It's horrible - looks ugly and badly done even before you get started on the thinking behind it. AIBU to ring the council on Tuesday and ask when they are going to deal with this vandalism?

I did a four hour round-trip on the motorway today too and the amount of flags on bridges was shocking - just make it stop.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Plantatreetoday · 25/08/2025 01:39

TesChique · 25/08/2025 01:36

Op's remark about how its doubly a shame bevause she lives in "one of the most beautiful parts of the uk"

Thanks
its late isn’t it and that one went completely over my head

Jackreacherstrousers · 25/08/2025 01:39

Liesmorelies · 24/08/2025 22:01

To clarify - I'm not English, I'm Welsh but have lived in England most of my life. I consider myself British first and then Welsh a very close second. My ex is English so my children are (mainly!) as are most of my friends - obviously!

But yes, English people do have a tendency to victimhood in relation to matters like this, not to mention missing the point. Look at the people on this thread asking whether I object to the Ukrainian or Palestinian flags being flown. Do they honestly think 'the English' are suffering like people in Ukraine or Palestine right now? Can they not see the difference in attitude between people wanting to show support for these war-torn countries and people following the orders show that England is for the English? Really?

But our great grandparents and grandparents did suffer, as the Ukrainian people are suffering now, through two world wars.
They fought for our freedom and our right to free speech. If that means flying the St Georges cross or the union flag, voting reform or painting a roundabout so be it.......you don't have to agree with it or the sentiment that might be behind it but in a free country people do have the right to express their views.

Shesamaneater · 25/08/2025 01:40

TesChique · 25/08/2025 01:33

Yes lets leep this ill thought out practice in the ugly parts at least!!

Well, that’s my only contribution. I’m not very in with the politics, I just know it’s based on racism and all the ‘stop the boat’ers, so my main concern is that it looks awful 🤣

Fetaface · 25/08/2025 01:41

Jackreacherstrousers · 25/08/2025 01:39

But our great grandparents and grandparents did suffer, as the Ukrainian people are suffering now, through two world wars.
They fought for our freedom and our right to free speech. If that means flying the St Georges cross or the union flag, voting reform or painting a roundabout so be it.......you don't have to agree with it or the sentiment that might be behind it but in a free country people do have the right to express their views.

As do people have the right to say they do not like it and give their reasons too.

We cannot say freedom of speech then pretend that someone who is also exercising that right is 'shutting us down' and 'stopping us'.

Velmy · 25/08/2025 01:43

Fetaface · 25/08/2025 01:19

So it is racially motivated when these muslim grooming gangs raped their own kids and those in their own communities that we as a proud society have ignored?

Absolutely it is a dereliction of duty to say that muslim gangs are safe around muslim kids and ignore muslim victims of these gangs.

A racially motivated crime by definition is a crime where the victim was targeted due to their race, and would not have been targeted otherwise.

You could certainly argue that the Muslim girls abused in the Rotherham scandal were targeted due to their race, as culturally they would not have been likely to report the abuse. That's likely why the majority of convictions were for crimes against white girls. I think it's pretty clear that poor white girls were groomed based on their vulnerability first and foremost, although many of the perpetrators were clearly racist.

I don't think anyone (on this thread at least) has alluded to ignoring Muslim victims of such crimes. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Charlthg · 25/08/2025 01:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TenaciousDeeds · 25/08/2025 01:45

I’ve read the beginning and end of this long thread and I’m still utterly confused as to what the OP is annoyed about…

Fetaface · 25/08/2025 01:51

Velmy · 25/08/2025 01:43

A racially motivated crime by definition is a crime where the victim was targeted due to their race, and would not have been targeted otherwise.

You could certainly argue that the Muslim girls abused in the Rotherham scandal were targeted due to their race, as culturally they would not have been likely to report the abuse. That's likely why the majority of convictions were for crimes against white girls. I think it's pretty clear that poor white girls were groomed based on their vulnerability first and foremost, although many of the perpetrators were clearly racist.

I don't think anyone (on this thread at least) has alluded to ignoring Muslim victims of such crimes. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

So muslim kids were targeted by the groomers because of their race? And Hindu, Sikh, black girls too?

These groomers targeted girls of all ethnicities. They were convicted of the white rapes as the girls of other ethnicities have been ignored and so they have not yet been held to account for those crimes. That is racism at its finest, right?

There is only one thing that makes ALL kids vulnerable to abuse by groomers - that is being in the vicinity of groomers.

Absolutely they have - saying that groomers only raped white girls when they didn't. They targeted girls of all ethnicities but the majority of convictions were for white girls because the other girls were ignored.

And still continue to be ignored. Why is that the case? That is a scandal in itself that we are still saying these girls shouldn't be supported or acknowledged.

Whenitsmytimeitllhappen · 25/08/2025 01:53

Liesmorelies · 24/08/2025 21:29

I haven't seen people in other countries slapping paint around their infrastructure. May be wrong though.

I think you'll find that most other countries happily display their flags. It's only when it's the English and British that it becomes a problem.

I think the question you maybe should be asking is, why is every other country allowed to be proud of their heritage, but when we do it, it's racist?

Velmy · 25/08/2025 01:53

Jackreacherstrousers · 25/08/2025 01:39

But our great grandparents and grandparents did suffer, as the Ukrainian people are suffering now, through two world wars.
They fought for our freedom and our right to free speech. If that means flying the St Georges cross or the union flag, voting reform or painting a roundabout so be it.......you don't have to agree with it or the sentiment that might be behind it but in a free country people do have the right to express their views.

Nobody is being stopped from flying the St George, or the Union flag, or voting reform, or painting roundabouts... although I suppose by the letter of the law they shouldn't be painting roundabouts.

Nobody is suggesting people shouldn't be allowed to do those things.

Just as someone is free to express themselves by putting a flag up, the next person is free to disagree with their reason for doing so. You can't have it both ways!

ImGoingUpstairsToTakeOffMyHat · 25/08/2025 01:53

I love seeing flags flying. People being butthurt only about England/Union flags are insufferable do gooders looking for problems.

The roundabout thing is cringe and looks crap, but “almost being sick” is massively melodramatic OP. Get a grip.

Fetaface · 25/08/2025 01:56

Whenitsmytimeitllhappen · 25/08/2025 01:53

I think you'll find that most other countries happily display their flags. It's only when it's the English and British that it becomes a problem.

I think the question you maybe should be asking is, why is every other country allowed to be proud of their heritage, but when we do it, it's racist?

Because they don't accompany their flag flying with racist slurs aimed at those who are in their towns.

I love being called a p* shagger when walking past such people with capes of St George.

Clonakilla · 25/08/2025 01:57

How interesting that so many people have been great supporters of the national flag for decades and have only now, entirely coincidentally, decided to start spray-painting and hanging it all over the place. Entirely unrelated to the racists who are doing the same, simply coincidentally, at the same time.

What a funny turn of events for the two to coincide so neatly! And then for posters who routinely seem to have similar opinions
to overt racists to then again align with them
on this point.

So many coincidences.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 25/08/2025 01:58

Menopausalsourpuss · 25/08/2025 00:01

I think our useless governments have created a Balkanised country with their mindless mass immigration with no integration demanded stance. Muslim areas such as Tower Hamlets have been displaying Palestine flags everywhere as a way marking their territory so some others have decided to do the same with English flags. The left wing middle class people on mn who live in very white wealthy areas know nothing about what is going on in some poorer areas and have no curiosity but like to mark their superiority by looking down on poor white (but never ethnic minority) people. I have noticed this since Brexit.

You do not live in London.

Plantatreetoday · 25/08/2025 01:59

Jackreacherstrousers · 25/08/2025 01:39

But our great grandparents and grandparents did suffer, as the Ukrainian people are suffering now, through two world wars.
They fought for our freedom and our right to free speech. If that means flying the St Georges cross or the union flag, voting reform or painting a roundabout so be it.......you don't have to agree with it or the sentiment that might be behind it but in a free country people do have the right to express their views.

But not vandalise

Silverbirchleaf · 25/08/2025 02:13

They also fought against far right facism.

Iwanttoliveonamountain · 25/08/2025 02:15

Silverbirchleaf · 25/08/2025 02:13

They also fought against far right facism.

And if those people were here now they would see that fight is not yet over. Very sad.

Velmy · 25/08/2025 02:24

Fetaface · 25/08/2025 01:51

So muslim kids were targeted by the groomers because of their race? And Hindu, Sikh, black girls too?

These groomers targeted girls of all ethnicities. They were convicted of the white rapes as the girls of other ethnicities have been ignored and so they have not yet been held to account for those crimes. That is racism at its finest, right?

There is only one thing that makes ALL kids vulnerable to abuse by groomers - that is being in the vicinity of groomers.

Absolutely they have - saying that groomers only raped white girls when they didn't. They targeted girls of all ethnicities but the majority of convictions were for white girls because the other girls were ignored.

And still continue to be ignored. Why is that the case? That is a scandal in itself that we are still saying these girls shouldn't be supported or acknowledged.

So muslim kids were targeted by the groomers because of their race? And Hindu, Sikh, black girls too?

As I said in a previous post, the girls were targeted due to their vulnerability first and foremost. They weren't targeting middle class, private school children.

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

These groomers targeted girls of all ethnicities. They were convicted of the white rapes as the girls of other ethnicities have been ignored and so they have not yet been held to account for those crimes. That is racism at its finest, right?

The prosecutions largely relied on witness statements and testimony from girls who came forward. 80% of the recorded assaults were against white girls.

The crimes against other ethnicities haven't been ignored; they couldn't be prosecuted because the victims didn't come forward. Pakistani girls in particular could have been at risk of honour killings. There's a belief that another ring existed that was entirely focused on Asian girls...but no evidence, no case.

There is only one thing that makes ALL kids vulnerable to abuse by groomers - that is being in the vicinity of groomers.

To suggest that there aren't socio-economic factors that make victims particularly susceptible to grooming is ridiculous.

Absolutely they have - saying that groomers only raped white girls when they didn't. They targeted girls of all ethnicities but the majority of convictions were for white girls because the other girls were ignored.

There has been no suggestion that only white girls were targeted. Look back through the reporting of the trail and subsequent reports.

I've already explained why the majority of convictions were for crimes against white girls.

And still continue to be ignored. Why is that the case? That is a scandal in itself that we are still saying these girls shouldn't be supported or acknowledged

Nobody is saying that, only you! If you have no names, no evidence of identity, nobody coming forward of their own accord, how can you act? There have been repeated drives and appeals for information, and victims have been encouraged to come forward. We can always do more, obviously, but in this case, not much more.

People first think of white victims because the majority of the reporting at the time was about the white victims, who gave accounts that mentioned other white victims. And certain people/groups are very keen to push the narrative of Pakistani met preying on white English girls. That's the racism here.

Velmy · 25/08/2025 02:32

Whenitsmytimeitllhappen · 25/08/2025 01:53

I think you'll find that most other countries happily display their flags. It's only when it's the English and British that it becomes a problem.

I think the question you maybe should be asking is, why is every other country allowed to be proud of their heritage, but when we do it, it's racist?

I'm going to keep replying to these.

Nobody has a problem with the English/British flags.

Nobody has suggested that being proud of your heritage is racist.

People are being critical of those putting flags up this week based on a drive started, backed and funded by known racists, because they think it's going to upset migrants, or in protest at the authorities saying they can't do it, which isn't true.

Nobody accuses people of racism when they're waving flags during a Lionesses game. They accuse people of racism when they're painting flags on walls while shouting racist abuse at a passing woman.

Do you understand the difference?

Obeseandashamed · 25/08/2025 02:36

Made me want to vomit is a figure of speech. Clearly went over most people’s heads… kinda shows the ignorance of some 😅

Velmy · 25/08/2025 02:57

Obeseandashamed · 25/08/2025 02:36

Made me want to vomit is a figure of speech. Clearly went over most people’s heads… kinda shows the ignorance of some 😅

Yes, everyone knows that... they're taking the piss because it's ridiculously dramatic.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 25/08/2025 03:14

Velmy · 25/08/2025 02:57

Yes, everyone knows that... they're taking the piss because it's ridiculously dramatic.

Actually I don't think it is ridiculously dramatic to have a visceral response to clear signs of creeping fascism being openly displayed, and at the sinister attempts at gas-lighting from people who either don't care, or secretly approve of it.

Velmy · 25/08/2025 03:23

MistressoftheDarkSide · 25/08/2025 03:14

Actually I don't think it is ridiculously dramatic to have a visceral response to clear signs of creeping fascism being openly displayed, and at the sinister attempts at gas-lighting from people who either don't care, or secretly approve of it.

It's definitely a reason to get mad, or any number of other emotions...but telling people you're going to hurl every time you see the news is very "Woe is me! Look how sad I am about this!"

Bleachedlevis · 25/08/2025 03:36

Why are some posters pretending that you are using ‘nearly threw up’ literally and not metaphorically? You are not being dramatic or overreacting. The badly executed flag on a roundabout sounds absolutely naff - like misspelled graffiti and sends out the message ‘Morons Live Here’.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.