Dd17 work won’t let her book some time off for her driving test

[Blueybingomum]

dd17 is currently doing an appearance in a nursery. She’s been there a year and absolutely loves it but the managers can’t be abit funny.

she passed her theory test last week straight away booked her driving test, now these are horrific to get atm and she luckily managed to get one in 11 weeks time.

she went to work yesterday and asked if she could book it off but manager has said it’s unlikely. She asked if she could just take the morning off as it’s at 11am but again, said unlikely. They told her she has to look at the staff rota and rebook her test. They have more staff than needed atm and are constantly sending staff home early.

Aibu to think it’s abit harsh.

I really feel for her. The rational response to such awful management is to pull sickies for future tests. I really hope you find a way for her to sit this test though.

FWIW we did manage to get 2 cancellations at short notice. Key was to target big test centres. One almost an hour from us has about 12 tests running a time whereas other more local ones only employ 2 or 3 testers each, so nearly all the cancellations we saw were at the big centre. I think the extra capacity creates a bit more flexibility - not just in sheer numbers, but people are more prepared to move tests when they are not so much like gold dust so there are disproportionately more cancellations offered up. DD had done all her practice more locally so it was a punt, but she did about 3 hours' practice round the bigger centre and passed.

It does not matter that she is under 18. There is no way at all that we would discuss/hold a meeting with a parent of an apprentice. They are the employee, not the parent.

She can request an HR meeting and have another person with her for support though. There's no reason why that person shouldn't be her mum.

And she needs a meeting to ascertain why she is not able to take her annual leave allowance and why she is being illegally discriminated against due to her age.

The person can be either a union rep or a colleague. Not a parent. We would also allow a college rep.

She absolutely should push for being given her legal right to annual leave I agree. I am not defending this particular company at all.

Nonsense, it is common practice to bring whoever you feel most comfortable with. She probably isn't in a union. What if there are no colleagues she trusts to support her properly? For example, because they're all quite happy that their annual leave requests take priority over hers?

It isn't nonsense. An individual workplace MAY agree to allow a parent in to accompany her, but that would not be usual. The rules are, work colleague or union rep.

If there was no colleague she felt comfortable with I would suggest asking if a college personal tutor/rep would be allowed.

What gits.
how can they expect her to stay let alone feel any loyalty towards work.

Put it this way, if you ever find yourself in the position of managing an apprentice who is a legal minor, who is alleging that their employment rights have been breached and that they are being illegally discriminated against, and is requesting that their legal guardian be allowed to accompany them to an HR meeting for support, it wouldn't look great if you refused. Particularly if it did in fact turn out that you had been illegally discriminating against them due to their young age.

I would also suggest that, in this case, asking if something would be allowed hasn't got her very far. If they're not allowing her to take annual leave then they will probably say they won't allow her to do anything else either, such as bring a college tutor for support. That's why she needs her mum to help her say, "No, YOU are not allowed to prevent me from taking annual leave or discriminate against me due to my age or tell me that I can't bring someone to an HR meeting to discuss these issues."

We would not illegally discriminate. But although none of our current apprentices are under 18, the youngest has recently had their 18th birthday I have bene in that situation several times.

We would NOT allow a parent into an HR meeting. Ever.

OK, but her employer IS illegally discriminating against her.

True, but I am simply pointing out, tying to be helpful, what the employer may rightly say about such a meeting.

Meetings between HR, apprentices and the college are a regular occurence as part of the apprentiship anyway so much more likely to be approved. All three parties will have signed an apprentiship agreement so the college could actually request such a meeting anyway.

They're not saying anything "rightly" though.

How can the OP or her daughter trust that they are telling the truth when they say she is not allowed to bring a family member with her, when it's clear that they are not telling the truth about her right to annual leave?

How can the OP or her daughter trust that they are telling the truth when they say she is not allowed to bring a family member with her, when it's clear that they are not telling the truth about her right to annual leave?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Being allowed or not to bring a family member into a HR/Grievance meeting is entirely at the discretion of the company. The exception is if an employee is disabled, they are allowed to request to bring in a care or support worker. Not a parent and not a legal representative either.

I'm not asking anything. I'm pointing out that she can no longer trust anything they say.

She needs to stop letting them tell her what she's not allowed to do, and start telling them what they are not allowed to do, such as illegally discriminate against her and deny her legal right to take annual leave. But that's not so easy for a 17 year old, and it would be easier for her with adult support.

One thing is for sure, which is that if she takes this right to the top, if they're on record as having refused her request to allow her legal guardian to accompany her to an HR meeting to discuss the fact that she's being illegally discriminated against due to her young age, it's going to look even worse for them than it already does.

If she can't trust them then she should look on ACAS for guidance or even phone them for support and advice.

Not allowing a parent into an HR meeting will NOT look bad for them.

If she were to take them to tribunal over the holiday, that in itself will look bad.

Don't shoot the messenger if you don't agree with the message. I am simply stating what current employment law and guidance is on these matters.

Of course she should contact ACAS, as many of us have already said.

ACAS will advise her that she can request to take a work colleague or union representative into the meeting.

That's not her primary question though, is it?

Anyway, to come back to my point, if her manager continues to be a dick and insists that she can only bring a union rep or a work colleague to a meeting, and she doesn't have a union rep or a work colleague whose impartiality isn't compromised, then what?

Then she has to go to the meeting alone. I would advise her to make a list of points with mum's help at home to take to the meeting. I would also strongly advise her to speak to the college about the issues she is having.

And if she has to go to the meeting alone because they refused to allow her to bring someone who could provide meaningful support, it's not going to look good for them if she takes the matter further.

It just looks as though they're doing everything they possibly can to stop her from asserting her legal rights.

I expect this is exactly what they'll do, because they're clearly complete arseholes.

it's not going to look good for them if she takes the matter further.

It will be of no consequence whatsoever.

I’m so stressed about this, we’ve been looking to try and change but there’s absolutely nothing until March next year on the official website and barely any popping up
on testi.

i don’t know what to do. She’s emailing the higher up manager tomorrow as she’s been away and wants to wait until she’s back so she knows she’s the one to get the email.

I feel so sorry for her. She went me the yearly
rota and there isn’t a single day where she can take it off for the rest of the year. She has holiday to take as well.

That's unacceptable. It's exploitative. And probably illegal.

She needs all this in writing.

She should just tell them she won't be in and they can take her through a disciplinary.

She should call her bluff and say if they want to go down that route she will go legal.

She needs to walk away from this job, take her test and trust that she will get another job soon with a better nursery. She's being bullied. Help her get an employment lawyer to write a letter on her behalf, specifying why she is leaving, in particular having holiday constantly denied, and demanding she is paid in full for all holidays owing or they will take the matter further.

She could get a job as a mother's help or via a babysitting agency meanwhile, so that she has some good current references lined up for when she wants to apply to work in another nursery.

Yeah she is looking for something else, she’s just waiting as she finishes her level 2 in October so I fear they have that hold on her 😩