Dd17 work won’t let her book some time off for her driving test

[Blueybingomum]

dd17 is currently doing an appearance in a nursery. She’s been there a year and absolutely loves it but the managers can’t be abit funny.

she passed her theory test last week straight away booked her driving test, now these are horrific to get atm and she luckily managed to get one in 11 weeks time.

she went to work yesterday and asked if she could book it off but manager has said it’s unlikely. She asked if she could just take the morning off as it’s at 11am but again, said unlikely. They told her she has to look at the staff rota and rebook her test. They have more staff than needed atm and are constantly sending staff home early.

Aibu to think it’s abit harsh.

Well she can either quit or go sick a couple of days.

Given that you have to keep having driving lessons until your test date, delaying her driving test by 9 weeks would cost her hundreds of pounds, and there's still no guarantee she'd be allowed the time off.

Your daughter is their cheapest staff member, as an apprentice! They'll keep cheaper minimum wage on shift in preference to minimum wage. However, she should be fully supervised by fully trained staff at all times, so wondering about their staffing ratios. Get her training provider, running the apprenticeship, to get her the time off. Childcare staff can generally move between employers very easily. Try ACAS too for advice. They are out of order here.

''@SaltAirAndTheRust · Today 06:30 That’s what working life is about.''

Not in any decent company, it isn't...

The OP's daughter is entitled to take annual leave, she has requested one morning off with plenty of notice.

If a business cannot cope with one employee taking a morning off when given weeks of advanced notice then it is a problem with the business/manager, not the employee.

OP, I would suggest your daughter keeps her driving test date and continues to work for now and then give her notice at work (one week? one month?) before the test is due.

The she can move on to another nursery with better management.

Firstly, you won't be able to just join a union and request help for a matter that is already happening. It's like insurance-you can't break your leg on holiday and then apply for medical insurance when it already happened!
I suspect this is an issue of context. If the request was made during the working day then the manager will have perceived the request as "one more thing on the to do list, arrange cover for 11 weeks time". The nursery environment is essentially day long multi tasking, very pressured, so saying "no" allows her to tick something off the list.
Your daughter ought to try and get that manager at the end of their working day, and she should say "I'm going to put my request for leave in writing so you have time to look at it", and then email it. In the email "thank you for your understanding" and then leave it.
It will be more work for that manager to write back and refuse, than it will be to add a note to the rota.

I don't think this is an issue of being pig headed, I believe it's more about someone being so overworked that they don't know how to make time for compassionate responses. Not ideal, but hell, does anyone know the pressure of running a nursery?

I've been chuckling at posters who suggest the OP's DD "should have checked" before booking the test, for that very reason.

Mind you, it was no different when I took mine 50-odd years ago. I failed my first, and had an 11-month wait for my second one.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

You can respond to being treated like shit by people with no respect for the fact that you are a human being with non work related needs and priorities by treating others the same, or you can be the change you wish to see in the world.

There’s a life lesson here - never ask for important days off, pull a sicky.

Yeah, and be that employee who's a total cunt and inconveniences?Other employees who then have to come in to cover your laziness and inability to book annual leave correctly.

Is an apprentice included in the ratio 's ?

The life lesson is to work for a decent employer. Not pull a sicky.

This is utterly ridiculous. You have to take driving tests when you can get them at the moment because the system has become utterly dysfunctional.There are 6 months waits or more otherwise. It REALLY isn't the case that you get to choose when they are (and the DVSA often change them themselves as well, cancel them last minute).

NO good employer would behave like this. And they are clearly ignorant of the difficulty in getting tests at the moment. It's ONE half day ffs. 11 weeks ahead? They have been given more than enough notice (which is what responsible working adults do). With the other refusals, they are not treating her reasonably at all.

Anyone here suggesting that the OP's DD is being some kind of entitled brat or "this is working life" "this is what being an adult is" is clueless about current reality, I'm afraid, unreasonable and deeply out of touch. OP's DD has been responsible. Her manager - not so much. Part of adult working life is learning when to stick up for yourself and understanding what is reasonable accommodation and what isn't. An employee's driving test in 11 weeks time under current circumstances absolutely should be accommodated.

@Blueybingomum I want to pick up again on the fact that your DD's manager said it is "unlikely" that she will be able to take that day off.

If I were her I would go back to her manager at the end of the shift and say this.

"Hi Sharon. The other day you said it was "unlikely" that I would be able to take a half day off to do my driving test. What does that mean, exactly? Does it mean that you have looked at the rota and there is absolutely no possibility of me having that time off because too many other people have already booked that day off? If that's the case then why not say so? If there are people who have not booked that day off as annual leave but are not currently on the rota that day, can't you swap my shift for one of theirs? If you let me know who those people are I could go and speak to them. I am thinking about the time I tried to put in an annual leave request with 10 months' notice and you said I couldn't have it in case someone else wanted the same time off. This suggests that you think everyone else has priority over me for annual leave because I am only an apprentice, and that I will only ever be allowed to take annual leave if and when it is convenient for you. But according to ACAS I have exactly the same right to take annual leave as anyone else. Being able to take my driving test is really important, and I will not be able to book a test slot unless you are able to commit to me taking time off to do it. Test slots are released at 6am, months in advance and they are very difficult to get. I need some understanding and flexibility from you. So, can you please approve my leave request for 15th November, and if there is a genuine reason why you cannot, can you help me find a solution to book a driving test? I assume you wouldn't be willing to be on the phone with me at 6am when the test slots are released, and I can't just keep booking test slots for several months' time with no way of knowing whether you will approve the leave or not. Perhaps you could give me a set list of dates when I cannot book a test, and agree that if I find a test slot that is not on one of those dates you will approve it without quibbling?"

My husband is 47 and learning to drive and he has a test coming up and basically he HAS to pass as we literally can't afford to keep going with the lessons another year and he's really time poor at the moment as we have 2 little kids under 4 and even trying to fit the lessons in is so difficult!! he's going out at 7.30 am 2 mornings a week before work at the moment! 🙃

its illegal to not let her take her annual leave. She needs to report them to local authorities and find a new job

It is different now as there’s a whole industry sprung up around it and resellers. So you’re now fighting bots to book tests. Cancellations are harder to get as well as a result. I know people who have paid hundreds of pounds for a driving test via one of these

one simple change would be to stop people being able to swap tests. You either sit the test you booked or cancelled. You shouldn’t be able to change driver.

I’m sorry but, to me, it sounds like they’re taking the piss out of her - probably due to her age and inexperience.

You’re never too young to join a Union! (if you’re old enough to be in full-time employment)

Appeal and then if still not granted escalate it.

Would most 17y olds feel able to say all this? Mine wouldn’t. But I agree with the sentiment.

It's 11 weeks away. They might forget she asked. Book a random day in line with the staff rota. And call in sick on the actual day.

And if the conversation does not end with the manager approving the leave, I would send an email, copying in anyone relevant (Apprentice training manager? HR? Is there anyone higher up than her in the organisation or anyone with overall responsibility for your DD's training?) and say this:

"Hi Sharon,

I am sending you this email as a written record of the conversation we had today.

This is my understanding of the points we discussed:

• You think it is "unlikely" that I can take half a day's annual leave on the morning of 15th November in order to take my driving test, because if anyone else wants that day off you won't have enough staff to cover the shift.
• You will not commit to me being able to take annual leave at any given time (even with 10 months' notice, as per my previous request) because I am an apprentice and so everyone else's leave requests take priority over mine.
• You understand that I have the same annual leave entitlement as everyone else and that you must allow me to take it within the annual leave year, but your position is that I will have to take it at times which are convenient for you and you cannot tell me in advance when those times will be.
• I must not book a driving test slot without checking the rota first, even though test slots are released at 6am and disappear within minutes [and in order to consult the rota I need to be at work - include if this is the case].

Please can you confirm whether my understanding of the above is correct? I am planning to contact ACAS to ascertain what my legal rights are and I need to make sure I have not misunderstood anything before I speak to them.

If all of the above is correct then I do not see how I can realistically take my driving test whilst still working for you.

Kind regards, etc.

No, I agree with this, with one caveat.

You play by the rules until your employer screws you over. Ask for annual leave or compassionate leave following the correct protocols, with as much notice as you can give.

The day your employer unreasonably denies you time off to take your driving test or see your mother one more time before she dies is the day you stop playing by the rules and just pull a sickie any time you absolutely need to be off and can't take the risk of your shit of a manager saying no.

Agree it’s batshit. She should ask again firmly and submit the request for the morning. If the manager says no, give her notice in. Vote with her feet! She has leverage in that the sector needs staff so her manager is behaving very stupidly.

She might with some proper encouragement and coaching.

This sort of life lesson is one best learned as early as possible.

Rather than them telling her "it's unlikely" she can take half a day's leave, she needs to get them to explain to her how she officially requests a half day's leave from the 5.6 weeks leave she is legally entitled to take.

If there is no actual way that staff can take leave (and it's not a term time role where she is paid for leave that falls during pre-arranged periods) then she should tell them that she is asking ACAS or her Union for advice.