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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Overheard chat about why people don’t progress at work

131 replies

OchreCrab · 21/08/2025 22:27

I overheard a conversation at a cafe about why people don’t progress at work.

Im 40 and was self employed until 32 selling a product with no staff and just myself. I had to move countries to be closer to mum who’s had health issues. I also had a baby so was away from the workforce for a year.

I have a PAYE job and started on £21k and after job hopping a few times I’m on £34k. I hope to progress and I've been placed with a mentor. I have a lot of weakness in my communication.

However I was wondering if a reason why I’ve not progressed is because of ability, how can you tell? I don’t communicate well but I do hope to work on my low self esteem. It’s also hard to get training/support whilst at work due to busy managers. I’ve moved companies and want to stay in this job for a little while longer (due to baby and hopefully learning about the job/industry). Also could get a funded cert via my employer.

i hope when I’m 50 I’m head of something.

Aibu I’m thinking I can’t progress?

OP posts:
YouOKHun · 24/08/2025 00:41

@OchreCrabthat sounds really tough. Obviously I don’t know you but could it be that part of it is overthinking what you’re going to say and how to say it and the blankness is partly panic? The more you try to control it and second guess yourself the trickier it becomes one’s? Even if there was a physiological reason or particular cause of your speaking issues the problem has now become, at least in part, psychological (even though it doesn’t feel that way). I agree with @TryingAgainAgainAgain the experience is likely to be different as an adult and no doubt SLT has moved on as well and developed new ways of understanding and treating problems.

I just wonder if a speech therapist who understands psycho-physiological disorders and understands how to treat anxiety might be helpful? Like this person, a senior SLT and BABCP accredited CBT therapist. It’s just a thought. I hope you get support with this aspect. https://www.finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/view/37265/mrs_jane_coley

TalkToTheHand123 · 24/08/2025 06:31

You just need to find out what kind of questions get asked and what answers they want and be able to remember the answers for the interview.

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 07:58

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 00:34

Thanks but I’m not DV….. it’s not something anyone would test for…

Can I ask what you mean by this @OchreCrab ? Why wouldn’t anyone test for this?

Dancingsquirrels · 24/08/2025 08:37

CrispieCake · 22/08/2025 00:21

I don't think it's possible to mask or "reinvent yourself" without a lot of stress.

The advice I wish I'd been given when leaving school is this = look for a job that plays to your skills and where you can do a good job while working at 80% capacity rather than needing 100% the whole time.

If coming across confidently and articulating your thoughts clearly on the spot are difficult for you, don't do a job where those skills are the main thing that you are judged on.

Excellent advice

Find something you (1) enjoy and (2) are good at, and you'll naturally find the right level / seniority

My current role plays to my strengths and it's different in every way to my previous roles

Dancingsquirrels · 24/08/2025 09:02

Excellent advice

Find something you (1) enjoy and (2) are good at, and you'll naturally find the right level / seniority

My current role plays to my strengths and it's different in every way to my previous roles

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 15:51

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 07:58

Can I ask what you mean by this @OchreCrab ? Why wouldn’t anyone test for this?

you can’t say to your employer you are ND without proof and me not being able to spell and not having a significant issue with my life isn’t going to get the nhs to test

OP posts:
NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 16:41

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 15:51

you can’t say to your employer you are ND without proof and me not being able to spell and not having a significant issue with my life isn’t going to get the nhs to test

Ok. Thanks for explaining. Just to be clear though, you absolutely CAN say to your employer than you believe you are neurodivergent and request the appropriate accommodations which may help you. I am not naive enough to think that this will be an easy conversation in all places of work, but most big / professional / corporate / public sector environments will support a conversation like this, even without a diagnosis.

Many of them will also suggest undertaking an occupational health referral for you to better understand how they can support you.

You also don’t need a diagnosis to request support from the government’s Access to Work scheme, which will also put in place support to help you better cope with the demands of your job. This can include practical support like access to ADHD coaching, technology and subscriptions to digital tools and applications, as well as physical stuff like standing desks, ergonomic chairs, special glasses etc.

Please do look into this. And it would help to be able to say to your employer that you have been referred for assessment (even if we all know it will be a very long wait).

Finally, if you are so inclined, you can make an appointment with your GP and go in with a list of symptoms which make you believe you may be neurodivergent and request a referral.

They will likely push back on this so it may help to go in armed with a completed AQ-10 form to indicate some of the challenges you have, and prepare some notes on any social / comms challenges you have, any rigid behaviours / inflexibility and how you feel if plans or routines change, any sensory challenges you have with eating, drinking, noise, textures etc. also, importantly, how your social / communication issues affect your job and make it challenging for you at work.

Have all of this already prepared in short bulletin points which you can hand to the GP - this will make it easier for you and them to discuss.

more information is here: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/before-diagnosis/how-to-request-an-autism-assessment

I know you may be finding this very difficult to imagine, but please do. I am in a senior professional role, am a good communicator and enjoyed academic success. I 100% don’t fit the typical ND profile, but guess what? I am and I didn’t know until two years ago.

Lots of things you’ve said lead me to believe that there’s a strong possibility you may be ND and you deserve the right support to help you fulfil your potential.

i would encourage you to spend some time researching what autism / ADHD looks like in girls and women, because it’s a million miles away from the traditional, well-established profile of autism which is based on white males with very narrow interests and an inability to make eye contact.

The more you understand about all of this, the better equipped you will be to advocate for your own needs and get the help you deserve.

I hope you forgive me for potentially overstepping here, but I am giving you this advice with the best of intentions.

How to request an autism assessment

Information about how to get a referral for an autism assessment through your GP or privately, barriers people can face, and the Right to Choose in England.

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/before-diagnosis/how-to-request-an-autism-assessment

Sunshineandgrapefruit · 24/08/2025 18:20

So what did the people you overheard say? (Misses the point!)

Rrrrrres · 24/08/2025 18:34

roclalalflg · 21/08/2025 23:02

That not too difficult to improve on! There are a lot of videos on TikTok and yotube on this. A cool and helpful thing I picked up on is the 3 minute challenge. You pick a random topic and record yourself talking about it. Then you listen back and analyse yourself.

Also things like Toastmasters help with this. Activities structured to force you to endure public speaking.It does get muuuuch better with exposure and time :)

what do I need to specifically search for on YouTube to find such videos on improving chit chat and public speaking / any particular channels? I’m not on TikTok! Thank you

TryingAgainAgainAgain · 24/08/2025 18:41

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 00:09

I went to a speech therapist and she said I was fine, just taught me how to sound my voice to make it louder. I saw her once and that was it.

i don’t know how it will help me with my brain not having any thoughts?

im not suggesting you aren’t right I just don’t know what I don’t know.

for example if someone asked how my weekend went I would have to take about five minutes thinking and recalling what I did, what I could say that was interesting, what would make good conversation etc…. Can that be taught? If I had to plan a conversation that’s ok but really life doesn’t work like that

Yes, they can help with a lot of that. I’ll post an AI summary below that explains it better than I can.

If you look at the services offered on this website you’ll see similar (and that they work with the impact neurodiversity has on exactly what you are describing, if that is relevant):

https://asltip.com/find-a-speech-therapist/

“Speech and language therapy (SLT) can help adults by addressing cognitive and executive function issues that impact communication. SLTs provide individualised treatment plans, often using behavioural approaches and strategies, to improve aspects like attention, organisation, and social interaction skills, helping adults navigate daily life more effectively at home and work. You can find qualified professionals through directories like ASLTIP or by contacting specialist clinics.

How Speech Therapy Helps

Cognitive Communication:
Speech therapists help improve skills related to executive function, such as attention, memory, and organisation.

Social Skills:
SLTs can provide therapy to improve social communication and interactions, helping adults better understand and use social cues.

Expressive Language:
For those who struggle to express their thoughts clearly, therapy can help develop expressive language skills.

Receptive Language:
Speech therapy can also support individuals in understanding language and instructions more effectively.”

Find a speech therapist - ASLTIP

https://asltip.com/find-a-speech-therapist/

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:22

Sunshineandgrapefruit · 24/08/2025 18:20

So what did the people you overheard say? (Misses the point!)

Basically people doing my job dont
progress further because they can’t, not a desire to do so.

OP posts:
OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:23

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 16:41

Ok. Thanks for explaining. Just to be clear though, you absolutely CAN say to your employer than you believe you are neurodivergent and request the appropriate accommodations which may help you. I am not naive enough to think that this will be an easy conversation in all places of work, but most big / professional / corporate / public sector environments will support a conversation like this, even without a diagnosis.

Many of them will also suggest undertaking an occupational health referral for you to better understand how they can support you.

You also don’t need a diagnosis to request support from the government’s Access to Work scheme, which will also put in place support to help you better cope with the demands of your job. This can include practical support like access to ADHD coaching, technology and subscriptions to digital tools and applications, as well as physical stuff like standing desks, ergonomic chairs, special glasses etc.

Please do look into this. And it would help to be able to say to your employer that you have been referred for assessment (even if we all know it will be a very long wait).

Finally, if you are so inclined, you can make an appointment with your GP and go in with a list of symptoms which make you believe you may be neurodivergent and request a referral.

They will likely push back on this so it may help to go in armed with a completed AQ-10 form to indicate some of the challenges you have, and prepare some notes on any social / comms challenges you have, any rigid behaviours / inflexibility and how you feel if plans or routines change, any sensory challenges you have with eating, drinking, noise, textures etc. also, importantly, how your social / communication issues affect your job and make it challenging for you at work.

Have all of this already prepared in short bulletin points which you can hand to the GP - this will make it easier for you and them to discuss.

more information is here: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/before-diagnosis/how-to-request-an-autism-assessment

I know you may be finding this very difficult to imagine, but please do. I am in a senior professional role, am a good communicator and enjoyed academic success. I 100% don’t fit the typical ND profile, but guess what? I am and I didn’t know until two years ago.

Lots of things you’ve said lead me to believe that there’s a strong possibility you may be ND and you deserve the right support to help you fulfil your potential.

i would encourage you to spend some time researching what autism / ADHD looks like in girls and women, because it’s a million miles away from the traditional, well-established profile of autism which is based on white males with very narrow interests and an inability to make eye contact.

The more you understand about all of this, the better equipped you will be to advocate for your own needs and get the help you deserve.

I hope you forgive me for potentially overstepping here, but I am giving you this advice with the best of intentions.

Sorry but why do you think I have autism?

OP posts:
OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:23

Or adhd?

I don’t think I have either

OP posts:
TalkToTheHand123 · 24/08/2025 19:30

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:22

Basically people doing my job dont
progress further because they can’t, not a desire to do so.

That's quite honest and they obviously are not at any of the places I've worked at. Most people I've overheard say quite bitterly the people who have got the job they went for don't deserve it and just know how to talk the talk in the interview or brown nosers and can't do the job.

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:34

in attentive adhd actually is me

OP posts:
TryingAgainAgainAgain · 24/08/2025 19:51

That's a really useful post, @NancyCarey, thank you. I was diagnosed as AuADHD last year, and like you, it came as a huge surprise.

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 20:05

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 19:23

Sorry but why do you think I have autism?

I don’t know you, and I am not medically qualified, so I am simply going by what you say and how you say it, and how you define some of your own challenges. You may or may not have autism. I simply recognise a lot of what you’re saying from the experiences of multiple neurodivergent people in my life.

Also, as a result of my own ND profile, my psychiatrist (and in fact my own executive coach) identified a strong capacity for pattern recognition. Because of that, reading all of your posts is like multiple lightbulbs going off for me, but if you don’t put all of these things together you might not see it.

So yes, of course I could be wrong, but from what I am reading, it sounds to me like you might be neurodivergent.

You struggle to communicate both verbally and in writing, and how you describe your difficulties in terms of finding words, decoding messages etc is consistent with dyslexia and possibly anomia (the latter isn’t a sign of autism but lots of autistic people have anomia-like challenges).

Bear in mind there is a huge comorbidity between dyslexia and other conditions such as speech and language problems, ADHD, executive functioning disorder etc.

Some of the challenges you describe appear to possibly indicate an impairment to your working memory and / or processing speed so you should look into executive functioning disorders. Potentially you are quite inattentive too which might tick some adhd boxes.

You say you have low self esteem and find it difficult to know where and when you should get involved at work. The lack of a sense of self can be typical in ND people.

Your approach to tasks seems to be quite orderly, literal and rigid, and when you don’t have time to organise your thoughts and plan, this seems to be where you struggle.

The fact that you are wondering how you can teach yourself how to have spontaneous conversation whereas usually you need to plan for this type of interaction is also consistent with neurodivergence. (Particularly highly masking ND women) (and btw that was me - I didn’t even realise I was masking for the first 40 years of my life - I just wanted to look normal, fit in, act as other people do ).

As I say, I am not medical and I may well be wrong. But I am in my 40s and am currently obsessed with consuming information and knowledge about ND in females, because I feel strongly that women shouldn’t be left behind when there is support and interventions that could help them.

There is a woman working in my department who sounds very similar to you. I don’t know whether she is ND or not but in the background, I have implemented some inclusive ways of working to benefit her (and everyone actually) even if she maybe doesn’t even recognise this in herself.

So again, apologies if I am overstepping here - my intention is just to plant a seed which might result in you looking into this and maybe even ruling it out. But it’s better to know what to consider, so you’ve explored all options.

Sorry if my comments have offended or worried you.

5128gap · 24/08/2025 20:22

I think people do reach the limit of their abilities, and sometimes that's a lower level than they'd like. I think you know your limits when you reach a job that continues to challenge you, and still requires you to still seek guidance from your manager, rather than knowing the solution/next step/answer already. Conversely if your job becomes easy and you find yourself contributing at a higher level than your pay grade, with ideas, knowledge or problem solving, you're likely ready for a step up.

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 21:57

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 20:05

I don’t know you, and I am not medically qualified, so I am simply going by what you say and how you say it, and how you define some of your own challenges. You may or may not have autism. I simply recognise a lot of what you’re saying from the experiences of multiple neurodivergent people in my life.

Also, as a result of my own ND profile, my psychiatrist (and in fact my own executive coach) identified a strong capacity for pattern recognition. Because of that, reading all of your posts is like multiple lightbulbs going off for me, but if you don’t put all of these things together you might not see it.

So yes, of course I could be wrong, but from what I am reading, it sounds to me like you might be neurodivergent.

You struggle to communicate both verbally and in writing, and how you describe your difficulties in terms of finding words, decoding messages etc is consistent with dyslexia and possibly anomia (the latter isn’t a sign of autism but lots of autistic people have anomia-like challenges).

Bear in mind there is a huge comorbidity between dyslexia and other conditions such as speech and language problems, ADHD, executive functioning disorder etc.

Some of the challenges you describe appear to possibly indicate an impairment to your working memory and / or processing speed so you should look into executive functioning disorders. Potentially you are quite inattentive too which might tick some adhd boxes.

You say you have low self esteem and find it difficult to know where and when you should get involved at work. The lack of a sense of self can be typical in ND people.

Your approach to tasks seems to be quite orderly, literal and rigid, and when you don’t have time to organise your thoughts and plan, this seems to be where you struggle.

The fact that you are wondering how you can teach yourself how to have spontaneous conversation whereas usually you need to plan for this type of interaction is also consistent with neurodivergence. (Particularly highly masking ND women) (and btw that was me - I didn’t even realise I was masking for the first 40 years of my life - I just wanted to look normal, fit in, act as other people do ).

As I say, I am not medical and I may well be wrong. But I am in my 40s and am currently obsessed with consuming information and knowledge about ND in females, because I feel strongly that women shouldn’t be left behind when there is support and interventions that could help them.

There is a woman working in my department who sounds very similar to you. I don’t know whether she is ND or not but in the background, I have implemented some inclusive ways of working to benefit her (and everyone actually) even if she maybe doesn’t even recognise this in herself.

So again, apologies if I am overstepping here - my intention is just to plant a seed which might result in you looking into this and maybe even ruling it out. But it’s better to know what to consider, so you’ve explored all options.

Sorry if my comments have offended or worried you.

So someone has one trait so they must be ND?

right, ok.

OP posts:
OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 22:11

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 20:05

I don’t know you, and I am not medically qualified, so I am simply going by what you say and how you say it, and how you define some of your own challenges. You may or may not have autism. I simply recognise a lot of what you’re saying from the experiences of multiple neurodivergent people in my life.

Also, as a result of my own ND profile, my psychiatrist (and in fact my own executive coach) identified a strong capacity for pattern recognition. Because of that, reading all of your posts is like multiple lightbulbs going off for me, but if you don’t put all of these things together you might not see it.

So yes, of course I could be wrong, but from what I am reading, it sounds to me like you might be neurodivergent.

You struggle to communicate both verbally and in writing, and how you describe your difficulties in terms of finding words, decoding messages etc is consistent with dyslexia and possibly anomia (the latter isn’t a sign of autism but lots of autistic people have anomia-like challenges).

Bear in mind there is a huge comorbidity between dyslexia and other conditions such as speech and language problems, ADHD, executive functioning disorder etc.

Some of the challenges you describe appear to possibly indicate an impairment to your working memory and / or processing speed so you should look into executive functioning disorders. Potentially you are quite inattentive too which might tick some adhd boxes.

You say you have low self esteem and find it difficult to know where and when you should get involved at work. The lack of a sense of self can be typical in ND people.

Your approach to tasks seems to be quite orderly, literal and rigid, and when you don’t have time to organise your thoughts and plan, this seems to be where you struggle.

The fact that you are wondering how you can teach yourself how to have spontaneous conversation whereas usually you need to plan for this type of interaction is also consistent with neurodivergence. (Particularly highly masking ND women) (and btw that was me - I didn’t even realise I was masking for the first 40 years of my life - I just wanted to look normal, fit in, act as other people do ).

As I say, I am not medical and I may well be wrong. But I am in my 40s and am currently obsessed with consuming information and knowledge about ND in females, because I feel strongly that women shouldn’t be left behind when there is support and interventions that could help them.

There is a woman working in my department who sounds very similar to you. I don’t know whether she is ND or not but in the background, I have implemented some inclusive ways of working to benefit her (and everyone actually) even if she maybe doesn’t even recognise this in herself.

So again, apologies if I am overstepping here - my intention is just to plant a seed which might result in you looking into this and maybe even ruling it out. But it’s better to know what to consider, so you’ve explored all options.

Sorry if my comments have offended or worried you.

Maybe you should get yourself tested.

I’m also not ND.

I don’t struggle with writing and verbal communication all the time. I can write an essay, I can have phone conversations, I can have a conversation with someone I feel comfortable being with, like my family, or close friends, I get anxious around others. As confirmed by a Speech pathologist. I can write an email fine, if I need to give five mins to MumsNet when I’m a parent with a new born, I will give you what I have that time.

you don’t have pattern Recognition, you are looking to diagnosis based on what you think you see.

I have lack of self esteem, which is a trait of allot of mental disorders, including depression and anxiety. I don’t know where to get involved at work because my boss doesn’t give direction, I work across a lot of departments and because I’m the lowest wage I don’t know how much responsibility they want me to do. It’s a new role, we aren’t in a job to be spoon fed. It’s not a repetitive job, it’s very bespoke and we have merged.

I don’t need to plan tasks in an orderly way. You try being a carer for a young baby and step parent on palatine care. My time and resources are extremely limited at the moment. I’m at risk of burning out trying to meet the needs of everyone.

you seem extremely invested in labelling a lot of speech and language disorders, without being qualified. I would advise it’s not conductive to good mental health.

Why are people wanting yo label everyone autistic. It’s bizarre.

I know not autistic because a medical person has assessed me, and the questionnaire came back very low probability.

OP posts:
NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 22:15

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 21:57

So someone has one trait so they must be ND?

right, ok.

I’m sorry that you find my advice so laughable / unhelpful. You asked me a question and I replied in good faith outlining a number of traits which I had identified from your own words, but I apologise if I have offended you.

I have no motive or agenda here other than to help. You're welcome to ignore my comments, and I will bow out if this now. Good luck in your career and I hope your mentor is able to help you.

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 22:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NancyCarey · 24/08/2025 22:25

One final point; if you had actually read my posts you would have noticed that I mention several times that I have been assessed and I AM neurodivergent.

Maybe you should take a step back and and consider what it says about your own character that you’ve chosen to attack someone who has defended you in the face of some unnecessarily nasty comments, shown kindness and offered advice multiple times on this thread.

You may well have anxiety and a newborn; I have three fragile autistic children and I still spent time answering your questions because your post resonated with me.

good luck.

OchreCrab · 24/08/2025 22:28

This reply has been deleted

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Trovindia · 24/08/2025 22:34

This reply has been deleted

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You are so fucking rude. You don't deserve to progress at work if this is how you talk to people who try to help you.