Overheard chat about why people don’t progress at work

[OchreCrab]

I overheard a conversation at a cafe about why people don’t progress at work.

Im 40 and was self employed until 32 selling a product with no staff and just myself. I had to move countries to be closer to mum who’s had health issues. I also had a baby so was away from the workforce for a year.

I have a PAYE job and started on £21k and after job hopping a few times I’m on £34k. I hope to progress and I've been placed with a mentor. I have a lot of weakness in my communication.

However I was wondering if a reason why I’ve not progressed is because of ability, how can you tell? I don’t communicate well but I do hope to work on my low self esteem. It’s also hard to get training/support whilst at work due to busy managers. I’ve moved companies and want to stay in this job for a little while longer (due to baby and hopefully learning about the job/industry). Also could get a funded cert via my employer.

i hope when I’m 50 I’m head of something.

Aibu I’m thinking I can’t progress?

Use chatgpt. Get it to ask you questions on random topics or work topics or a topic of conversation (you can be as random or specific as you want) and type in replies and ask it to mark them. Get used to responding on the fly. It's just a computer so won't judge you- just let you know how far you are from a "good" answer.

Don’t give up. 💜

This. I don’t want to “progress” much further in my role as it just means going into management which I don’t enjoy and find management a boring job.
I enjoy my technical/specialist type job and I’m quite happy doing what I do, which still involves line managing a couple of being but management is just a small part of my job rather than my whole job. It’s a bit annoying that you don’t get paid as much as management roles for being a specialist but that’s just the way it is I guess.

Not sure what the conversation in the cafe has to do with the rest of your post...? What were they saying?
I don't think a snippet of a half-overheard conversation in a cafe is worth too much thought and self-flagellation.

Personally, I think not everyone (myself included) is destined to be top of the career ladder, and that's okay. I'm certainly never going to be, and I'm fine with it. I know I'm too lazy and don't care enough. I'm also not massively motivated by money, so that doesn't really help either. I don't want a job that's all-consuming, and for that you have to be happy with a job that isn't at the top of the ladder, and doesn't pay the big bucks.

I agree with @InDarkModeToday

Your posts are obviously coherent and written in clear English but I still find it difficult to get the nub of what you are either asking or describing.

What kind of boss do you have and what kind of position are you wanting?

Everyone is rightly commenting on the importance of good communication and I totally agree with this.

However to describe the OP as “barely literate” (as one poster did above) is as offensive as it is inaccurate. She is clearly literate and seeking support.

Comments like that are not helpful as they exaggerate the scale of the challenge and simply contribute to the OP’s crisis of confidence in this respect.

OP ignore this nonsense as it is very clear to me what you’re saying, and I understand that your messages might not be as straightforward as you would hope because you’re not sure of some of these answers yourself.

Strategic communication is about knowing your audience, knowing what you want them to do and choosing the words and messages which will help them to take the action you want them to take.

Not everyone can do that on the spur of the moment, but you can help yourself by considering who you’re more likely to fluff your words with and always have at the back of your mind how you might engage with them the next time you are in that situation. Some role playing (as cringey as it sounds) does help with this.

Likewise, if there is any form of neurodivergence at play here which means that you are prone to waffle, mix up your words or which affects your working memory or processing speed, you might want to consider making your employer aware of this.

To progress, yes the standard school of thought says that you need to be a good communicator. I would maybe challenge that slightly by saying that you need to be a good influencer and this recognises that some folk also need to be supported to communicate in the right way. It doesn’t lessen the value of their contribution or what they have to offer in senior roles.

If you can lead, direct, develop, create, add value and generally offer good skills, you will find your own optimal way of influencing and sometimes that comes from surrounding yourself with great people who ARE great communicators and will help communicate your vision.

I wonder if you would benefit from some CBT for social anxiety @OchreCrab? It sounds like you’re in a bit of a loop where you expect difficulties, are on the lookout for difficulties in the moment and therefore very focussed on yourself trying to prevent errors and feelings of panic. It’s a vicious cycle. You may not be generally socially anxious but the self-consciousness is definitely in that domain.

CBT might help you to recognise which bits of your thinking about your abilities and your verbal communication are unhelpful. It might also help to pinpoint some of the things you do in situations where you are panicked and tripping over your words that feel like helpful behaviours and strategies but are actually keeping the problem going and driving the panic and the worry over your communication. Just a thought. This book is helpful. https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9781472120434?gC=5a105e8b&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20226739100&gbraid=0AAAAADsTpARzdVbyE43oKi1iqeUEg1Zcz&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqqDFBhDhARIsAIHTlkuFO4PtWBDl1MA4hDRbdur5gF0Fdb_iNOc4BZbOmKfUaPHX29btIhUaAvleEALw_wcB

Thanks but I don’t speak properly so it’s hard

i don’t know what the issue is, I just feel so out of my depth all the time . I’m in therapy atm and not helpf

@OchreCrab what do you mean you don’t speak properly?

@OchreCrabdo you mean you have a speech problem like a stammer? Or do you mean you trip over your words because you’re nervous or you find you can’t remember words? Can you describe what you mean? What sort of therapy are you having?

Not prepared to discuss therapy but I have issues with speaking clearly, phonics, how I pronounce words, sentence structure, missing words, using incorrect words, it’s like my brain is empty.

if someone was to ask me how I did a task at work, I would have difficulty explaining it on the spot. But I could wrote a fully cohesive list of how to do the job.

i feel like my brain is empty all the time.

I also had speech therapy as a child, I don’t understand phonics, spelling is terrible .

Would you consider speech therapy as an adult? I've worked with SLTs and they are so holistic now, looking at comprehension, expression etc as well as the physical aspects. It would likely be a very different experience to that you had as a child.

The biggest reason people don't progress is actually being competent, take a look around at how effective many organisations and senior leaders are and how many of the ineffective ones hire people that will have their backs by not suggesting ideas or changing anything for the better or otherwise. It's not far off a lottery although obviously skilling yourself up and finding a role or organisation that will fit with those skills and the above dynamics might get lucky. Or sometimes if you're a man and hang around for long enough or seen as young and energetic enough and like the right football team and buzzwords might be enough

Or there is no where to progress to. Some jobs are dead end.
Where is the person who cleans your office getting promoted to?

@XenoBitch i really meant where there opportunities and people want them. I'm also in a position where the job I wouldn't mind has been occupied by someone for 10 years already and I have doubts they'll be going anywhere anytime soon but that goes back to the competence thing. There obviously aren't enough jobs for everyone to keep moving up so supply is a problem but if I really wanted to I could try elsewhere. That's why I said it's like a lottery, right time right place and you can be sitting on a more senior job for 20 years but can't always recreate that.

I went to a speech therapist and she said I was fine, just taught me how to sound my voice to make it louder. I saw her once and that was it.

i don’t know how it will help me with my brain not having any thoughts?

im not suggesting you aren’t right I just don’t know what I don’t know.

for example if someone asked how my weekend went I would have to take about five minutes thinking and recalling what I did, what I could say that was interesting, what would make good conversation etc…. Can that be taught? If I had to plan a conversation that’s ok but really life doesn’t work like that

The cleaner would be applying to work in a 9-5 job when she’s not looking after her child or others

if someone asked how my weekend went I would have to take about five minutes thinking and recalling what I did, what I could say that was interesting, what would make good conversation etc…. Can that be taught? If I had to plan a conversation that’s ok but really life doesn’t work like that

@OchreCrab yes these are the kinds of communication skills many SALTs work on.

My sons are autistic, one non-verbal, one VERY verbal - however even thorough he’s very articulate and knowledgeable his conversational skills need/needed work. His specialist school had a team of therapists who work on social skills and how to have conversations and effective exchanges rather than info-dumping. It can involve playing games, cooperative tasks (like treasure hunts), presenting tasks etc. I’m sure if you tried looking for a SALT specialising in communication skills for adults you would find that helpful.

Thanks but I’m not actually sure how they can help my brain which is completely empty?

What is a SALT?

unfortunately I don’t know if I can afford or even have time of work to attend but I’ll try and research

Thanks but I’m not DV….. it’s not something anyone would test for…

Speech and Language Therapist.

Your brain is clearly not empty. You need to understand how to formulate your thoughts and structure your conversations.

Every Monday someone will ask you how your weekend was. Learn an answer or plan one be for you go in.

’How was your weekend - do anything nice?’

’Pretty chill thanks - met some friends for coffee and then spend some time gardening - how was yours?’

It’s small talk - no one is looking for the answer - they’re being polite and making chit chat.

What is your degree in @OchreCrab