TW - DBil suicide attempt on DN’s birthday - help please

[goateee]

My sisters DH tried to take his life the night before our DNs birthday who’s 6. She stayed with her grandma that night, on her actual birthday my sister went to pick her up, and returned home with her to find her husband had taken another overdose and was comatose. My DN witnessed this, her dad unconscious, the panic from her mummy and the ambulance coming.

My sister called me and DH to pick DN up from her house, which we obviously did. When we got there paramedics were working on DBIL and I was asked to take DN away from the house. We tried to make her birthday as normal as possible. She seems okay really, had a good day yesterday and didn’t say anything about her mummy or daddy.

DBIL is “okay” now, he has been medically stabilised and admitted to a psychiatric ward.

Sister has asked us to keep DN here for a few more days as she is exhausted and overwhelmed. This is absolutely fine with us.

How can I best help DN and DSis? I’m in absolute shock, I feel so sad for the whole family.

It sounds as though you’re being a great support to your sister and niece already. Having someone she can trust to look after her child will be invaluable to your sister.

I hope your BIL gets the support he needs, is this an ongoing issue, you say “again”?

That must have been awful but I'm shocked at your SIL. Your niece witnessed all that and yet your SIL isn't there to reassure her own daughter.

thank you.

not an ongoing issue, he’s attempted twice in the last 2 days.

I’m also a bit shocked that DSIS hasn’t come to see DN, but we all do different things in shock.

Your sister knows your niece is in the best possible place right now - she trusts you and you are loving and caring for her daughter.
She is probably concentrating on her husband's needs.
and your sister's head is probably a bit of a mess right now - twice in 2 days !

How awful for your niece.

I don't think there's is a right way to support your family in the immediate aftermath and following your instincts and doing the best you can is great. It would be a good idea to get professional support as the situation becomes less immediate, something like play therapy for your niece and extra support at school

Maybe your niece can have a birthday party or treat with friends when school restarts or something so that she can have more positive associations moving forward and that's quite a birthday thing for children with school holiday birthdays so doesn't need to be seen as an abnormal thing.

I wouldn't think I'd make the same choice as your sister but it's great you are able to not judge that and recognise that she is in shock. Maybe talk with her about if it would be good for niece to make a get better soon card or something for her dad whilst he is in hospital, not talking about something at all can be quite frightening for children and this frames it early on as an illness not a rejection by her dad.

I would agree with this. She knows DN is safe and cared for. She'll be much less reassured about BIL.

I don't know what your situation is but is DH able to sit with his brother to give SIL a break? Even if it's for her to go and get a shower/change of clothes. She may even want to see DN for a bit but doesn't want to leave BIL.

Thats awful. I hope he gets the help he needs.
Your sister probably feels her daughter will be safe and happy with you.
Plus she may be worried about what questions her daughter will ask her and how to answer.
And the stress of trying to help her husband . I bet she is still in shock from finding him .

This is so sad. I feel so sorry for you all. In an ideal world your sister should be seeing DN as she (DN) is likely going to be very traumatised in time over what she saw and your sisters ability to help her process that trauma is what will do most to minimise this.

However this is far from an ideal world and your sister is likely traumatised too and not thinking straight as she tries to make some sense of this situation so in the meantime you are the best place for DN. Don’t think that because your DN seems fine that she is fine. Children have all sorts of adaptations to cope with trauma of this scale and the most important thing is that she feels safe with you and hopefully in time with her parents too.

Thank goodness you are there. I am sure your sister is up to her eyes dealing with all this and that she knows and trusts you to be the rock your niece needs at this moment. Better that you should do this than niece have to also deal with her Mum in a state.

I’ve been your DN but also don’t have advice. My family made everything as normal as possible and pretended it wasn’t happening. Was it affecting me in the moment? No, it was later in life that it started weighing on me. Would I ask that my family handled it differently? Honestly, no. Do I wish it didn’t happen and the imagery didn’t haunt me? Absolutely.

This isnt very fair, her daughter is somewhere safe away from it, her husband is suicidal.

You say she isn't mentioning them but it might be good for you to mention it? I think sometimes people think it's better for them not to worry but it might be better for her to talk about it all, or at least know she can if she wants to?

When my DF passed away later in life (complicated circumstances), I left my DC with the inlaws and didn’t see / speak to them for a few days. I asked about them, but didn’t interact with them directly. I couldn’t pretend I was ok, and seeing them would set me off. It was easier to leave them knowing they’re cared for and having a blast, and not letting them see their mum crumble.

@Sugargliderwombat yes I agree that it'd be a good idea to talk to dn. When there is a relaxed moment ask her how she is and how she feels about mummy and daddy, see what that opens up. Be very open and casual if she shares 'can you tell me more about that?' etc. but I do think it's important to not bury it all in the moment. DN needs to know that it's ok to have questions or talk about how she feels.

I agree.

My priority would be to my own child. I would also end the relationship. He took an overdose knowing he would be found and knowing his daughter would see him comatose. And be did all this right before her birthday.

I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

I think the OP’s priority needs to be her niece as her sister seems to be more concerned with her husband. The husband shouldn’t move back into the house. He isn’t a safe person to be around this child.

They should invest in play therapy for your DN now. This will be making an imprint on her.

I agree with this.

If you can talk to her about what did - and didn't - see, then it will give her the opportunity to make sense of what happened and you can explain some of it as best you can.

I would go down the route that Daddy wasn't feeling very well and he took too much medication. How much more than that you can elaborate depends entirely on what had been said already and what your DBIL is like usually.

It's entirely possible that your DN will not want to talk to her mum as she has seen her mum upset, and kids don't like to upset their parents. It might be that some counselling sessions might be appropriate. But if you can talk to her as well so she knows it is OK to talk about it, even if she doesn't want to talk to her mum.

And I can understand that her mum is staying away probably because she is a mess and doesn't want her daughter witnessing that, plus she can make any phone calls or arrangements without DN overhearing.

I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

I am sorry that you have experienced suicide in your family.
Please don't spread misinformation or minimize anyone's experience though, because a study by owens et al (2009) showed that under 1/3 of suicide deaths occurred outside the home. I appreciate that data is not attempts, but it is very minimizing to say that it wasn't genuine. Please be sensitive to OP and her situation.

Bless you op.

Clearly there is something major going on with your DBIL, two suicide attempts in 48hr tell us that. Let’s hope he is sectioned or will voluntarily stay at a psychiatric placement for at least a few weeks. It may not be beneficial for your DSIS to see him in the next few days since we don’t know yet what issue has caused this and the professionals need to assess him. She might also come under pressure from him to support him discharging himself - which won’t be beneficial to any of them. She’s in shock at the moment, and probably spending a lot of time either in person or by phone talking to his professional team. And working out how to explain to your DN what’s going on, a discussion that none of us would find easy. Give it anither day or so before telling DSIS how much her daughter needs to see her in person for reassurance.
Keep DN occupied, if she had activities planned try to keep up with them. If she asks questions then it’s not wrong to tell her you don’t yet know the answers but whatever the answer is you’ll be there for her as will other family members.
If you’re a ‘let’s get this sorted’ kind of person (I am) then the hardest thing is accepting that there’s is not much more you can do, you just have to let things happen and deal with the next hour or so. There’s no instant fix. As they say in the children’s book (and I’ve called upon this many times in the last few decades) you can’t go over it, you can’t go under it, you just have to go through it.
Hopethere are happier times ahead for DN.

When my child was rushed to hospital after being stabilised and then taken in by ambulance we were in for months. My other children were left with relatives and definitely didn’t see their parents for a few days. I know this is a different situation to your sisters but I had to prioritise the person in crisis and couldn’t have given them any real support or attention. Stepping in as you are is the hugest gift.

It is simply not true that genuine suicide attempts take place outside the home (with the resulting implication that attempts within the home are not genuine). I know two people who came home to find a parent dead by suicide as teenagers, one of them was my cousin.
Its completely unhelpful to make such sweeping and incorrect statements.

I remember doing a bit of research for some friends - I work in mental health but with adults.
Our friend's sister-in-law actually died in an accident and had young kids and I was looking at info about supporting kids in this situation (so I appreciate it's not the exact same situation).

One thing I found interesting was it said the emotions can be quite brief and changeable for kids ie they might be really upset for a short period and later absolutely fine a few mins later.

I work with trauma in adults and I'd recommend giving her the space to express whatever she's feeling - asking about how she's feeling without leading or pushing so she can express it if she's feeling unsettled but if she's genuinely fine go with that.

Make sure you're looking after yourself as this is a lot.

I've had a few patients who had really difficult times at home but had a relative that sometimes looked after them who was really loving and helpful and that can make so much difference to the rest of their lives.

The child s gp maybe able to refer to psychological support for child (and for the sil)

You could call "young minds" for advice

If child asks to see dad then see if you can speak to the psych ward what they advise regarding visits and when might be appropriate

Meanwhile keep it simple - dad is unwell so you staying here a few days - is fine
And let her school teacher know when she goes back what has happened

How absolutely awful for all of you.

I think a lot of people commenting to say that the brother in law should be left etc., have no idea how low you actually have to be to be at a point where you actively take an overdose in an attempt to end your life. Let alone two in two days.

OP, your sister’s world has just collapsed and she is lonely completely distraught. Her focus will be making sure her family is safe - they are.

I would offer to have your sister over if she wants, even if it’s just for a pizza and a wine when your niece is asleep. I’d concentrate on making sure your niece is okay, she knows her daddy is safe and getting better, and then just do what she wants. If she wants to colour, let her. If she wants to go out, take her out somewhere. Be led by her in a way. If she needs you to lie with her until she falls asleep, do it.

Just make sure she is comforted, and she knows she is safe and everyone else is safe. I’m sure in the weeks and months coming, there will be therapy and processing and the family unit will struggle, so establishing yourself as a safe space for your niece now will be invaluable.

How horribly tough for everyone. You sound like a really supportive sister and aunt. I am so glad that they have you. Wishing you all well

She probably isnt in s place tp do that at tge moment!