TW - DBil suicide attempt on DN’s birthday - help please

[goateee]

My sisters DH tried to take his life the night before our DNs birthday who’s 6. She stayed with her grandma that night, on her actual birthday my sister went to pick her up, and returned home with her to find her husband had taken another overdose and was comatose. My DN witnessed this, her dad unconscious, the panic from her mummy and the ambulance coming.

My sister called me and DH to pick DN up from her house, which we obviously did. When we got there paramedics were working on DBIL and I was asked to take DN away from the house. We tried to make her birthday as normal as possible. She seems okay really, had a good day yesterday and didn’t say anything about her mummy or daddy.

DBIL is “okay” now, he has been medically stabilised and admitted to a psychiatric ward.

Sister has asked us to keep DN here for a few more days as she is exhausted and overwhelmed. This is absolutely fine with us.

How can I best help DN and DSis? I’m in absolute shock, I feel so sad for the whole family.

My brothers suicide was unexpected. Nothing out of the ordinary had been going on. They were on holiday. Comments like this just cause guilt - not everyone who commits suicide displays signs that they are so desperate

I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

That is absolute and total rubbish.

There is someone - a husband and father - who is in such extreme mental pain that he has tried to kill himself. And you think that people who love him - a wife and daughter - should just walk away at what is probably the worst point of his life. And you think his daughter isn't safe? Would you say the same thing to a woman, or is it only men who you have such a hatred of that you can find not a shred of compassion for?

OP, I agree with others that talking about mum and dad, but "in passing" ways, gives your DN permission to talk if she wants. Maybe some of your activities with her could be used - for example "Daddy is ill so we could make him a get well card, would you like that?" It enables her to do and say whatever she wants, but puts no pressure on her.

But I also wouldn't worry about what you are doing too much - you are doing a wonderful thing and I am sure your sister is lucky to have such a loving and caring sibling.

@MounjaroMounjaro

That’s a bit unfair - her husband has tried to kill himself twice in 2 days! Her head must be all over the place.

She has done well to arrange a safe place for her daughter.

She must herself also be traumatised - finding a suicide / attempted suicide is no joke at all.

My mother in law has struggled with mental illness for many years and spent much of my husband’s childhood in secure psychiatric units, or at home but unwell and suicidal.

The thing he says was hardest was that people would always say to him that if he ever needed to talk, they were there for him, but if he ever tried to talk about things, they would shy away from it, minimise or change the subject.

I’m so pleased that you’ve been able to be there for your DN. I would recommend that if she wants to talk, let her, even if it’s a scary or difficult conversation that you don’t have neat and tidy answers to.

@Muffinmam

This is absolutely not true.

I found my cousin dead in her bed in her house.

@Linenpickle

Tell us you dont understand mental illness without telling us you dont understand mental illness.

But most parents would put themselves through huge amounts of pain so that their children don’t have to suffer? I understand the desperation to end things but surely you would try to avoid your small child finding your dead body on their birthday?

Do you not understand that this is an illness, he likely wasn’t thinking rationally, and just wanted the pain to end?

When you are tipped to that point of desperation it is often triggered by something specific that becomes your every focus - I doubt he even realised. People have told me that it's like a fog and you can't think beyond the trigger.

You don't consider things like who's going to find you, the affects of it after etc. I've had attempts in the past and my thought process was everything would be better if I wasn't here. It's a really dark mindset to be in.

OP I would imagine that after witnessing such a traumatic and terrifying scene your DN needs re-assurance that Mummy and Daddy are OK .Daddy is now on hospital and they are making him better.

If your DSis could manage a Facetime to show that she is OK and be factual about 'Daddy was very poorly but is getting better now' I think that would help. Even if your DN appears to be OK. Children of that age are able to act as they think they are expected whilst still being terrified inside.

I used to watch through the bannisters as my little brother was revived from terrible asthma attacks, and no one ever re-assured me. I just assumed my job was to keep quiet and not make a fuss. But I used to cry at night, and at school, worried that he would die, and when anyone asked me I would give other reasons for crying.

Poor Niece. I hope she gets some therapy so she doesn’t always associate her birthday with this awful time.

Mental pain isn't like physical pain for a start. It's not like "Mum fights off a bear and loses an arm to save her baby". More like "my very existence is a problem to those I love and if I wasn't here then they'd be better"

It might well be that he thought he was protecting or preventing his child from suffering

I do understand that, and the feeling that loved ones are better off without you, but that shows the suicidal person is thinking of their loved ones - so why don’t they also think “it would be hugely traumatic for my six year old to find my body on her birthday, even if I think she is better off without me, so I will do what I can to avoid that”?

@metellaestinatrio

Please educate yourself more about mental illness.

Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain at times. The sufferer really cant think straight.

Your posts are really ignorant because I have seen first hand how desperately ill a person who attempts suicide is.

You clearly do not get it. Please read up before making more insensitive comments.

Some people here are fucking awful

Do you genuinely think that someone who is at the point of being so desperate that they feel they can’t go on are thinking clearly enough?

they often think their loved ones would have better lives if they were no longer here. Their judgement and thoughts are so clouded they can’t see any other option

Agree with this. Explaining that Daddy isn’t well, but the ambulance came and now he is in hospital and the doctors are helping him to get better, might be the way to allow her to talk if she wants to. People get scared of talking about suicide but explaining it to her as you would any other illness will be reassuring. Tell her that she can ask you or her Mummy anything if she is worrying. My husband’s dad attempted suicide twice when DH was 8, it was obviously a very stressful time but in a way I think it was a relief once he was in hospital and getting help, as his behaviour and mood in the run up had been very difficult.

It’s sad that mental illness is so misunderstood, I doubt anyone would be critical if he’d had a heart attack or similar on DN birthday.

I hope they can all get the support they need, but in the meantime I’m sure they’re very glad of your help and care.

I am sorry you think I am ignorant. I am coming at this from the other side - I have a close friend who as a teen found her father’s body after he killed himself. The trauma of that, and of the feeling she wasn’t enough for him, lives with her every day nearly thirty years later, despite lots of therapy and a loving family. Having seen the enormous, life-changing impact it has had on her - more than if he had died of a physical illness - I admit I do struggle to understand the perspective of her father / the BIL here. As a parent it is the last thing I would want my child to go through.

My dad grew up with my grandmother who was extremely unwell (schizophrenia) and his dad who had deep trauma from his own mothers repeated suicide attempts. It's why my dad's mental health was broken.

I know, first hand, that a home environment with an actively suicidal parent isn't safe. I know because of the lasting impact on my dad, on the impact of his mental health breakdown on me and my siblings. I know because he went on to marry a woman who had made repeated suicide attempts that her children found and I know how traumatised they were long term. I know because one of my closest friend's parents was successful and I know the impact on her and her sibling (who went on to take her own life).

I'm not unsympathetic or uncaring to mental health struggles. I care passionately. But through no fault of the parents own it isn't safe. You cannot make it safe.

My DB hanged himself whilst on holiday with his DD and DP who had terminal cancer…..I don’t see the selfishness any more, I think his desperation must have been so overwhelming

But you don’t know the trauma her father experienced to get to that point. You can have empathy for all of the people involved. People are actually pretty fragile beings, they can suffer enormously with emotional pain caused from all sorts. You clearly have empathy for your friend, why are you so black and white as to not be able to extend that to her father or the father here?

That is a very different scenario from the one described in the OP. One parent, apparently without previous indications, attempted suicide in one short time period. There is no indication that the child is in any danger, and there is no direct correlation purely between a child at risk and a suicide attempt. You cannot draw conclusions from one scenario and then apply it to all others.