TW - DBil suicide attempt on DN’s birthday - help please

[goateee]

My sisters DH tried to take his life the night before our DNs birthday who’s 6. She stayed with her grandma that night, on her actual birthday my sister went to pick her up, and returned home with her to find her husband had taken another overdose and was comatose. My DN witnessed this, her dad unconscious, the panic from her mummy and the ambulance coming.

My sister called me and DH to pick DN up from her house, which we obviously did. When we got there paramedics were working on DBIL and I was asked to take DN away from the house. We tried to make her birthday as normal as possible. She seems okay really, had a good day yesterday and didn’t say anything about her mummy or daddy.

DBIL is “okay” now, he has been medically stabilised and admitted to a psychiatric ward.

Sister has asked us to keep DN here for a few more days as she is exhausted and overwhelmed. This is absolutely fine with us.

How can I best help DN and DSis? I’m in absolute shock, I feel so sad for the whole family.

This shows a lack of understanding of acute mental health crises.
He will most likely have been in such a dark place that he thought that his beautiful daughter and wife would be better without him (absolutely not true). Suicidal people rarely 'pick a date'.

Genuine attempts always take place outside the house? What planet are you on making sweeping statements like that? What a stunning lack of empathy from someone bigging up their own knowledge.

My first husband killed himself in our bedroom. But it wasn’t a genuine attempt, I guess.

Living with someone who is mentally unwell and suicidal is emotionally draining and terrifying for all involved including your DS. These kinds of situations tend to have long tails and so DS and DN may have been living in a very stressful situation for some time. It's a pity DS's first priority isn't her daughter, but she'll be in shock and her MH may be compromised.

In your shoes I'd invite DS to visit daily or stay with you, so you can give her some care and attention and get a handle on what's been going on. Has this all come as a dreadful shock to you, or have you been aware of DBIL's struggles for a while?

I'd assure DN that Mummy and Daddy are okay, Daddy's not well and is being looked after in hospital. Is she asking questions about what she saw? If so I'd say Daddy wasn't well and the paramedics came to make him better. Low key, calm, nothing to worry about.

You will know the kind of lifestyle DN usually has and what she enjoys, so do what she's used to. Right now she needs to feel safe and comfortable and able to let any worries go. Is she distressed at not having her mum around? If things have been difficult at home recently, being with you may be the best thing.

I've been reading about memory recently and it seems to be accepted these days that very few people actually have clear and accurate memories much before the age of eight. Much of what we 'remember' stems from photos, videos and family stories and stuff we pick up from others. So with luck your calm, loving reassurance will stick and help soothe the stress of what she saw and heard.

I would definitely not, at this stage, involve professionals, GPs and support services, who will pathologise her. Sorry to anyone involved in those services, but I know from my own experience of having a close family member commit suicide how utterly crap at the worst and unhelpful at the best the 'help' they offer can be. If your DN is doing okay in your care, then I'd continue to make her feel safe, cherished and that everything is okay. Little children can be surprisingly resilient.

Good luck, such a tough call for everyone involved.

Wow that's tough OP, poor DN. Have you spoken to your sis at all? I'd try to get an update if possible on what's happening so you have a way to bring it all up with DN and hopefully reassure her a little about what's going on.

You could then say 'I've just spoken to your mummy, she's looking after daddy who's in hospital because he's poorly. They're both missing you loads and are sending loads of love. If there's anything you want to ask or talk about any time then I'll try and answer any questions you have.'

Just knowing that you've spoken to her mum and her parents haven't suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth might reassure her. Who knows what's going through her head at this point poor little thing.

Sending hugs to all.

Maybe dsis hasn’t visited dn because she can’t cope with seeing her, or knows what to say to her.

Keep looking after DN, don't judge DSis for not visiting and don't judge DBil for what happened.

Ignore the people here making out like he didn't mean it or should have picked another day. He's mentally unwell, he wouldn't have "picked" the date ⁸

Such a tough situation OP and your DN is lucky to have you during this tough time.

I'm 32 now and when I was 7 my mother overdosed when I was on my own in the house with her. She attempted again over the years but it was the first time that stuck with me. I was deeply traumatised and it impacted my life in many ways. I had no support as a child, no one explained to me what was going on and no therapy etc. My mother's side of the family were ashamed so wanted nothing to do with us.

I think it would be good to get professional guidance on perhaps how to explain to your DN in an age appropriate way that Dad is poorly but is getting help to get better and absolutely therapy, play therapy, she may need talk therapy as she gets to her teenage years as I have no doubt it will stay with her.

But she has loving family around her and that will make such a difference. Sending hugs OP.

Yeah, that's pretty awful.

I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.
Pack it in with this nonsense.

OP, I am really glad you are there for your niece, and keeping things normal. I agree with PP about therapy, I definitely needed it when my dad killed himself (after trying it before).

Your poor sister. I hope you can ignore the posters scorning her. The poor woman's husband has tried multiple times in a short space of time. It's easy to make judgement on the Internet.

All you do is be there which is what you’re doing. To attempt on his little one’s Birthday clearly says his poor mind must be in an absolute turmoil.

Poor kid. I would definitely mention to DN what is happening in an age appropriate way (dad was feeling unwell and that made him sleepy, so the ambulance came and now mum is making sure he’s ok and they both love DN and very soon she will see mum). Yes DN will be worrying and confused, missing the normal birthday celebration would have struck her hard I expect.

I was recently in hospital for unplanned surgery and my ds age 6 was affected by seeing me poorly. He appreciated a lot more hugs and reassurance and has been clingy. We didn’t let him come to the hospital because my ward was quite frightening due to lots of noisy and quite sweary people in the next bay, so I just vanished and that’s scary for a child.

@Muffinmam I have experience of suicide in my own family and genuine attempts always take place outside the house.

So have I and it did not take place outside of the house.
Please do not appoint yourself as the arbiter on this. Every situation is unique.

I doubt this came out of nowhere. I'd say there is a long and distressing account of how he got here. Dsis might have just been through months of hell before her worst fear came to pass, and need some time to think how she will talk to her child. She might not even be able to think of the child right now. I don't think its right to judge her.

Seconded. DN will almost certainly be traumatised (silence does not mean she is ok). It would be a good idea to get professional advice on how best to assist her. And for her mother to put her- not the husband- first. Experiences at this stage could have lasting detrimental effects on her.

I too have experience of suicide in the family. I don’t agree serious attempts always take place outside the home (one of my own relatives took her life at home) but doing this on the child’s birthday does not bode at all well in terms of father’s ability or suitability to play a role in DN’s life. Poor child.

What a horribly judgmental comment.

Suicide risk rises on birthdays, up to 40%. Normally on the birthday of the person attempting/committing suicide, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is also true for birthdays in the immediate family as well.

I know someone whose father committed suicide the day before her birthday. His mental illness had convinced him that he was a poison in her life, and the best gift he could give her was freedom from him. As devastating as it is for a child, someone in acute distress isn’t necessarily going to be capable of comprehending the actual impact that such an action will have.

Just a hug. Don’t be afraid to seek out support for yourself too, and advice while you have DN with you. Maybe looking at Help is at Hand the NHS booklet might be good.

Another vote for play therapy - but not yet.

All this "deciding to kill himself on his child's birthday" is an absolute load of bollocks. By default they are not thinking rationally. My DH attempted in woodland but aborted when he was disturbed by some noises (he thought people but I think most likely an animal as it was at night) and this gave him some time/space to, for want of a better expression, snap out of it and decide he wasn't going to go through with it. So DH went from being wholly engulfed in despair to the point that the only thing in his mind was to kill himself, to deciding not to because he didn't want to leave DD and I in a matter of seconds/minutes.

Unfortunately he deteriorated again and made another attempt in our garage when nobody was home and had received a phone call that tipped him over the edge. Fortunately he failed as the beam the noose was tied around gave way and he was found in the same woodland preparing for a second attempt (I'd alerted the police as soon as I knew something was wrong as I had a call at work from the person that had called him as they were concerned for his welfare and they found him in time using ANPR).

We don't know the circumstances of OP's Dbil's attempted suicide were, we really know nothing about the situation at all. So to say that he was selfish because of the day he "chose" (we don't even know if this was a premeditated choice or an acute reaction/exacerbation similar to my DH's last attempt) is quite cruel. It is really awful that she will forevermore associate her birthday with the event, and I would envisage that it will make her recovery harder/more lengthily as she could possibly view it as a sign that she was somewhat to blame for his actions (even more than if it was on any other day), but to blame him for that, I think, is below the belt.

I'm so sorry for your loss @VaseofViolets and everyone else who has been affected by suicide.

Isn't it just.
I think the Mum is doing as best she can, in a fucked up situation.

Why dont those casting jugdement tell us how they dealt with everything, when their husband tried to take his life multiple times in 48 hours, whom they found, likely dealt with getting him committed, all whilst simultaneously celebrating their child's birthday and dropping everything to be there for her. Oh and self care, because I'm sure OPs sister is in a great mental place herself.

I agree.

Sorry this is harsh but your sister needs to get her priorities in order, ie put your dn first. It’s her birthday and she just seen her selfish father try and kill himself at home knowing full well his dd will see him. Sorry, but that relationship would be dead to me.

It’s horrible. People saying that the relationship must be over. But if the mum was the one who had made an attempt, everyone would be horrified if he wasn’t by her side.

I don’t think it is really necessary to categorise people who try to commit suicide as selfish in order to recognise the point that children need stability & are damaged by fear, particularly when that is caused by the extreme behaviour of immediate care givers.

Children need to be kept away from fear & extreme behaviour: exposing a child to someone in the immediate family who is threatening (or trying) to kill themselves - particularly when this is repeated behaviour - can have very damaging long term effects. The selfishness or otherwise of the parent is irrelevant to the damage done to the child.

This is in any event my experience, & I feel very sorry for the child involved. I hope professional advice is taken on how best to deal with her exposure to this distressing event, & on what shape the family should take in order to best protect her.

Sometimes children are seen as resilient little plants, silent observers of their more eloquent parents’ dramas & mental health crises. This is not a good thing. They should be the priority.

It's not just harsh, it's down right rude and cruel

DN is with family who love her and can look after her for a short term whilst things are sorted

DBil has an extreme mental illness. He won't have had rational thoughts about when he's killing himself or how damaging it would be to find him. Likely his brain told him they'd be glad to find he was gone and not a problem for them any more.

Presumably Dsis isn't as heartless as you and knows her DH is ill and needs support.

I have no advice - my DN found my DB hanging and then 18 months later found her her mum dead from cancer (knew diagnosis but not exactly EOL).

im not sure of the long term impact but she’s definitely found counselling has helped her day to day

she was 10 and 11 when it happened