Husband diagnosed with ADHD & in debt

[HusbandInDebt]

I don't know what i want from this but I have to let it out somewhere as I can't sleep & I feel like I'm on the brink of actually falling apart.

I'm married to my husband 22 years now & we have 2 wonderful dc.

Dh is the kindest person you could meet. He's funny & sweet & thoughtful.

He's self employed & very good at what he does. I work full time. All seems good on paper but over the past couple of years the wheels have come off...

Dh has always been a dreamer but this is necessary in his creative sector. He's been incredibly successful. But he's also really really struggled with keeping work on track financially & on time

Things hit a crises for him about 3 years ago when he lost a big contract due to his disorganisation. That was a wakeup call for him & he sought help & was formally diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 49

Facing up to this has really shaken him. But its also helped him realise that there is an issue & that he needs to be mindful of how this affects him particularly in his business.

And in fairness, he's really trying & i see a big difference in how he's really watching his focus etc

However, he's accumulated a LOT of debt in his projects which i was not aware of until last year..We're talking 30k -ish now. It's owed to suppliers & in tax. He's falling apart with guilt & pressure to make it right & has made some inroads (paid approx 10k off this year so far - it was over 40k)

Dealing with this debt is putting huge financial strain on us & i'm really feeling it. I'm mid 50s & exhausted

We have 1 dc in university & another potentially going next year & its hard. I'm trying my best to not place that burden on them so I try to shield them

Dh grew up v poor & his diagnosis has made it pretty obvious to us that his mum also has similar issues. He & i have differing opinions on how to handle our finances with dc. He'd just say it straight out without considering how it might impact them & I worry that they'll end up carrying our burden / worry at the very time they should be heading off into the world.

My head is a mess. I feel i'm spiraling. We have no savings left, no pensions, no life insurance or health insurance. I lie awake at night worrying what will happen if one of us gets sick.
I'm really fucking angry at him.that he got us into this situation. Now that I knnw more about it, I can see the extent of how his ADHD limits him. And that makes me sad. For him & for us

I wish with all my heart that he didnt have it & that i could rely on him more especially financially.

I help him every day with his work. As well as working full time myself. I'm very very tired. I know he's not doing any of it deliberately but I feel like i'm carrying all of us right now

He works in a sector similar to architecture & he is v talented. He absolutely could work his way out of the debt but its a huge squeeze whilst that's happening. He's v easily distracted & goes down non productive rabbit holes v regularly. He's also very easily persuaded by 'talk' - people end up taking advantage of his skills all the time as he finds it difficult to read their motives

Then he gets stressed & embarrassed. I'm far more cynical & see through bullshit v quickly. He generally thinks i'm just being negative or unsupportive. Until he finally sees what's happening. It irritates me that he can't see it & then it saddens me more.

I'm feeling very sad about it all..I think back to the carefree days when we were first married & compare that to now & how broken down i feel & i wish life had worked out differently..and i feel so guilty about that

I'm also worried about the amount of pressure hes under too.

This is outside of my expertise but I’m wondering whether there are resources or organizations that can help ADHD sufferers organize their work and projects?

what has he tried so far?

A thread has been started here to help people share things perhaps for support too. there migh be things, helpful for you to have others to talk to. debt was something I have had to deal with so I understand and it took me years to address

** As in, there are thread in the mental health board section of the website if it might be helpful you, to post there

Forgot to ask - is he on meds for his ADHD

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP, it's so hard. I think it's also understandable you feel angry and upset.

DH should not be making any financial decisions by himself and longer term perhaps should consider an employed role vs self employment- even trading a pay cut for less financial responsibility? Did he speak with anyone about managing his debt in a more sustainable way, or are you shouldering all of this yourself?

Thanks for your replies.

To answer some of your questions as best I can:

He was referred by our GP to an ADHD specialist who formally diagnosed him. He had a series of follow on support sessions with a psychologist from that team. He willngly completed all recommended sessions & found them helpful.

We paid for all of this privately.

At the moment we can't afford any further private sessions.

His ADHD is relatively mild apparently and as he works in a creative sector they recommend not going on the meds as it could affect his creativity.

I can see that he is trying his absolute best to deal with it. He's vastly improved in areas like timekeeping as he uses better techniques to stay on top of it as now he knows he needs to. Where as for all the years before he was continually late & it was always someone/ something else's fault

He's more organised in that he has devised systems for keeping his stuff together so we have less of the lost keys / wallet/ phone as he's trying to get out of the house. Though this week his bank card is missing & if all his lost hats turned up we could open a hat shop!

I can v clearly see how things deteriorate for him when he's tired or under extreme pressure. He becomes far more forgetful & distracted.

To be honest i dont think he'd do well in paid employment. As in becoming an employee. He's been self employed his entire life & he knows how to do that v well - he's super skilled & talented. But he has no experience of working in a formal / regulated way. He can earn lots & has done. And he's v focused on getting contracts in. I've helped him sort out a load of external support to make sure he can turn the projects around more efficiently so time & money doesn't get wasted by him taking too Iong etc

Miscalculation of how long a task on a project will take is a major issue & he now recognises the impact of this. In the past he might say a job will take 4 months & cost it accordingly. But in reality it took 6 & he was paid for 4 but justified it by delivering perfection & the client was happy. He would not have connected the fact that the 2 extra months ate the profit & thats hes not being paid for those months.

He no longer makes financial decisions alone. But as he's dealing with paying back so much debt there's v little left at the moment anyway.

I feel so incredibly embarrassed & ashamed by our situation. We should be in the phase of our lives where its all come together & I feel like we're on the edge of a cliff & we're hanging on by our fingertips

For the past 2 years we've regularly been down to absolute zero in the days before my (regular) wage comes in. I hide this by avoiding plans with friends / family "oh sorry that sounds great but I have x, y or z that night' and on & on it goes.

I worry about money ALL the time.

I feel the resentment growing & i feel such shame about that.

I think ultimately we'll survive this bit. The debt will get paid. We'll somehow get our dc through university but at what cost to me & us i just don't know. I'm irritable & cross & pissed off so much i hate myself & who i've become. We argue more than we ever have. But money is at the heart of it all. If that bit was sorted I think we'd be ok.

I feel racked with guilt even writing this but I also feel a little relief to have gotten some of the swirling mess thats in my head out onto paper. We used to have so many dreams of travelling when dc grew up, me retiring early & perhaps living abroad but now? Those dreams are gone.

I think for starters check that you both are forecast to get full state pensions.

Look at what he would get paid as an employee ... might be worth going along this route.

Don't kill yourselves re-paying the debt asap. If it's £5k per year that is doable, do that.

Good luck op!

That sounds very stressful but there are positives! At least he is a nice guy and at least he is hard working and talented. You also sound very supportive of him. Are there any big changes you could make to get extra cash - sell the house and move into a smaller property, borrow from parents get in lodgers etc. I assume you’ve already given it plenty of thought though.
How much are you funding the kids? Are you sure shielding from what is happening is sensible. Lots of kids work before and during uni. My daughters boyfriend worked full time doing some sort of techy data entry between the end of A level exams and the beginning of university and made nearly 4k. He did that to some degree each year during the summer. Uni holidays are long.

Bollocks to no meds because of his creativity @HusbandInDebt

They really work and if hes not willing to try them, he doesn't care about all these problems.

Thanks for replying.

He worked briefly as an employee on a project 2 years ago & it was immensely hard for him for a number of reasons- his ways of working suit him & allow him to deliver. He essentially had to learn how to work in that new environment & that was so utterly exhausting & depleting for him. I saw him decline & lose all his confidence in a matter of months & it totally laid the question of becoming an employee to bed in my mind.

I, too, had been twirling that over & over in my mind. That project ended but if it had continued I think he'd have been destroyed by it.

That was a huge eye opener for us both & we discussed it every which way.

A good comparison would be if dh was a musucian who was immensely talented at writing, playing & producing his own music. But struggled with distribution/ touring.

And he took a job producing for a production company. But his methods whilst yielding excellent results did not comform to how they do things. So he feels a failure & he's facing criticism daily which distracts him further from the actual task he needs to deliver. Yet hes a award winning, noted musician in his own right.

He has the potential to earn a lot more by figuring out how to solve the issues holding him back in his own work.

Once this became clear, thats what we've focused on. And we can see that its helping. Its just slower to win contracts than i can bear right now. But i know that's my fear & tiredness more than anything that's making me feel like this.

He's not a musician!

I want to wave a magic wand & fix everything instantly. But i know we have to wade along though it all for the moment.

I truly dont think its the answer though I totally understand why you would suggest it.

We had an argument yesterday evening & its unsettled me so thank you all for allowing me to vent a little here.

I think you need a safe space to park some of your worries, or to vent when you have to - and here it is. Life sounds really difficult at the moment but you do both have a lot going for you.

Honestly that's the advice he was given about the meds

He would be willing to take them.

I actually think he's managing his adhd pretty well & working v hard to do so, so i'm less concerned about that right now

I just wish we were not in debt & life could be a little less stressful. Its relentless at the moment. These have been the hardest 2 years of our lives

Dc have summer jobs but there's still stuff we have to provide them with & ive been reluctant to let them know about the debt. Its also probably stupid pride on my behalf. I'm very highly educated & in a senior role & yet here I am....

Just to add - because of the debt our credit rating is through the floor so we've been declined for a loan in the past year.

Which in hindsight is a good thing. We will have to get through it & try to improve our credit score..

We paid off credit card 2 years ago & no longer have one (only debit) & now can't get one due to credit score.

Ok.

first things first, it’s a massive thing to have a diagnosis confirmed. For you and for your partner.

my DD has adhd. I well remember how stressed and upset I felt after the diagnosis (she was diagnosed asa young adult) as I was so worried she would never make her way in life and be independent.

you can self refer for nhs therapy for YOU and I would strongly advise you to consider doing that.

Then, consider refocusing.

this is (genuinely) not a lot of debt.

if you have two children who are mostly grown up and one of whom is at uni then you have done well as parents.

yes I understand you may have made financial commitments to them and you are worried about this.

then, you need to take a step back, detach, and look at your financial position in the round.

clearly you are in a squeeze right now but this is NOT going to be the case forever. Your children will leave uni and become independent. You are in work. Your dh is capable of work and is clearly getting to grips with what he needs to do to control his adhd.

so, make a list of what you do have financially.

you can check your state pension contributions here:
https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

do you own a property?

if so you may be able to plan to do what I have done, consider it as at least partially your pension and plan to downsize and move somewhere cheaper when you retire.

Hi @HusbandInDebt. I've namechanged for this. I support people with ADHD and autism (I'm absolutely not trying to sell you services, by the way!) and your husband's experience is SO familiar.

The website for ADDitude magazine has tons of info and strategies that you can access free. It's a US publication, and therefore any advice re. legal rights etc. will be different, plus there'll be a slightly different slant on medication. However, I and my clients have found the hundreds of articles genuinely useful.

ADHDUK is a UK charity that also has lots of info and a community forum hosted on Discord, plus a Facebook group.

The Smart but Scattered series of books is also great for executive functioning strategies. The one aimed at adults is called The Smart but Scattered Guide to Success by Peg Dawson and Richard Guare

Step Change is a debt charity that offers free advice about debt and helps you decide if a debt management plan is right for your circumstances. It's good for people with ADHD as they do all the admin work for you.

Where are you based, if you don't mind my asking? There may be a free support group for neurodivergent adults near you - and one for partners of neurodivergent adults too!

I really feel for you both.

@Octavia64 thank you for that.

You're right. The diagnosis was definitely something to come to terms with.

I think I'm struggling a bit still as pre-diagnosis his issues were always sort of 'something he could fix' next time. Or that external forces caused the problem with the project.

Post diagnosis its hit me that, this is it. This is who he is. And that i did not have that knowledge when i married him.

Which in reality is a bit silly because the diagnosis has actually allowed him to accept that he does need to make changes & its actually really changed his approach in a very positive way.

So there's some sort of dissonance there for me. Which i have to work through i think.

My reaction to the debt fluctuates wildly. Some days i'm strong & feel like we can do this & we're still young enough (just about!) To pay it off & build a better future

Other days like today, I feel crushed by the weight of it. Plus all the other stuff we need to tackle- the house & garden need focus & attention but there's simply no money or energy for that right now

The debt came to a crises earlier this year when revenue started legal action for a tax bill of 16k. & he received a summons. That was possibly my darkest hour. I truly thought we'd lose the house. I felt close to a nervous breakdown & cried for days.

He managed to get a payment plan in place & averted the court proceedings. He's paid 5k off that. Plus other payments to other debtors. But it means the majority of the profit from the work ge has on is gone into that & we're living from my wages

He's waiting to hear if he's been awarded another contract & will hear this week. That would help us ENORMOUSLY & i think the pressure of waiting is causing the pressure pot we're in to boil over.

I'm trying not to think about what happens if he doesn't get it. He'll start again looking for another contract etc

If he gets it it will allow us to breathe while he pays off more of the tax bill.

Not read it all, but 30k with both of you working can be paid off. I'd try to not worry. I've always shared with our DC when money has been tight.

Thank you SO much @WhereTFdidIputmy that's enormously helpful

I'm tearful now that so many of you are being so kind & not castigating me for ys being in this situation

We're so embarrassed & ashamed

His ADHD is relatively mild apparently and as he works in a creative sector they recommend not going on the meds as it could affect his creativity.
This is total complete and utter nonsense and could only possibly have been said by someone who doesn't understand what ADHD meds are or how they work. They're generally stimulants, not first-generation antipsychotics!

As someone with ADHD who works in the creative sector I find it absolutely baffling that any professional would ever have said this to him.

It sounds like what he really needs is to learn more about running a business and to keep a tighter grip on his business finances. The business clearly isn't in profit if it's this much in debt, at which point he either needs to make it profitable or do something else. You've said being an employee wouldn't work for him but if this business isn't bringing in money (and in fact is actively sapping your family money) then he needs to wind it up and at the very least start a new business based on actual market research selling a product or service that people actually want; a business that requires minimal investment and with very little scope for him to change his prices or buy expensive equipment or otherwise shoot himself in the foot. It sounds more like he's just messing around doing his hobby pretending it's a business while you clean up all his messes.

He also needs a PA or EA to work with him on the "boring" stuff and check through "deals" with people who try and talk his prices down etc. Not you. He also needs to use an accountant for his tax matters. It'll cost a few hundred quid but it will mean he won't end up in a tax hole with Revenue again.

Also (as you mention Revenue I'm assuming you're in Ireland) is he claiming artist's exemption for anything he can, to relieve the tax burden going forward?

He also needs to register his business as a limited company instead of acting as a sole trader, this gives your house protection from insolvency.

There is a big interplay between ADHD and hormone levels, particularly testosterone. There is a big misunderstanding that your level of ADHD remains the same, whereas actually it can fluctuate over the course of your life.

It may be that he is less able to manage it now because of hormone changes and so needs to revisit his coping strategies. He can't just say that he managed in the past without meds so he can manage now. That's not how it works.

Given your levels of debt and the huge impact this is having on your life I'd ask the GP refers him to someone with specialist knowledge of ADHD and how it presents in older adults

If the revenue have accepted a payment plan then that in itself is enormously optimistic.

it means that they think that he is capable of earning the money to pay it off, he’s just (just!) been disorganised.

focus on yourself in the short term.

consider going to the GP as you may well find anti anxiety meds help significantly. You can also self refer for nhs therapy such as CBT which will help you get to grips with this.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/talking-therapies-medicine-treatments/talking-therapies-and-counselling/nhs-talking-therapies/

Thank you all. I am reading everything & very appreciative. I'm in work now so can't reply as readily..

Just writing it all out has been an enormous help.

@HusbandInDebt shocking what you’re told by an ADHD professional that he doesn’t need meds due to creativity .

how can someone be allowed to offer his services after saying something like this!

so many artists have ADHD this is so irrelevant !

all of your problems that you’re setting could be sorted immediately with the right medication !
his brain doesn’t allow him to rest, think, plan

why don’t you address the brain

if he has a diagnosis speak to GP about psychiatrist referral

@HusbandInDebtI completely understand your disappointment and ongoing concerns for your children. I would try and to change your perspective a little if you can. While this is not the situation you ever imagined yourself in, you should be proud that both you and your husband are dealing with it. So many threads on here where the DH just buries his head in the sand etc. You’ve been dealt a crappy hand but there is pride to be had in how you’re dealing with it. My father recently died and looking through the disaster that were his financial (and to some extent, personal) affairs, along with other things, I’m convinced he had undiagnosed ADHD. And he did continuously run away from his problems and it contributed hugely to our strained relationship and his failed romantic ones. So you’re doing really well, all things considered.

As for your children - I would not advise hiding that kind of thing from them. My father did that and it made things worse. And you could end up in a worse situation just because you’re trying to keep up appearances that everything is fine and continue with the financial support they expect from when you thought you could give it to them. Lack of honesty destroys relationships, even lies of omission.

he works in a creative sector they recommend not going on the meds as it could affect his creativity.
i honestly would be questioning if they really said that or if that is just dh’s worry and it wasn’t actually ever said, lots of people in the creative sector take adhd medicine, I am one.
it doesn’t affect my creativity, if anything it massively aids it as I can see a project all the way through and my thoughts are organised etc, why won’t he try them, he can always stop.