Toxic Mother strikes again HELP!

[Peterpickedapickled]

I posted last week. To recap….
I have managed my elderly DMs difficult behaviour for years. It comes in waves over the years and depends upon whether or not I am meeting her needs. As soon as she feels I am not, her behaviour changes.
She is in constant contact with me. I struggle with boundaries. When I do enforce a boundary, she goes nuts!
I pull my guts out trying to help her whilst holding down a demanding job and a family. I listen to all her health problems and negativity because she has no one through her own choice.
She wanted a parcel taking to the post office. I agreed but said it would be next week when the parking was better. Several IMPORTANT messages later and she had changed where I could take it back to somewhere else. All because I said the parking was bad. Then she sent confusing messages saying she can take it back. This went on and on and in the end I just asked what she wanted me to do. This was all happening on my birthday when she knew I was going out. I said it was getting f**ing ridiculous. I had just had enough of it all!

Bad move I guess! She demanded an apology, said I was making a drama out of it, said I had no respect for her and that she would never ask me to do anything for her again. She then gave me the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

I have been away with my DH and DD and I have tried not to let it spoil our break but it’s been hard. I am so tired of her behaviour and very low and emotional.

My DD is 14 soon. I finally got a message from DM today letting me know that she is giving her money for her birthday.

She went in to say she has texted my DD asking if she is going away as she knew we were thinking about it. She hates giving money as it’s like you can’t be bothered but she doesn’t want to get her anything if she won’t be around. She stated that “just because we are not amicable doesn’t mean it needs to be inflicted on my DD. I missed hearing about her recent trip with school”

For context, DM was invited to my home when my DD came back from the trip so she could share pics etc. This was just after the parcel debacle and I decided it may be best if we go to her as I knew she was unhappy with me. I suggested this and that’s when she kicked off and went silent.

I just don’t know what to do for the best. I don’t want NC at the moment as this would be a massive step that I must feel 100% comfortable with. She is 85 and it’s difficult for me. I feel so confused but know what I feel about our relationship isn’t right. I don’t know whether it’s me thats the issue or her. My DH tells me it’s her.

I am trying not to reply but that doesn’t feel right either. I just don’t know how to handle it. I have been handling it wrong for years because I allow her in, to take over, I give her everything she wants. I can’t stop myself.

I am now seriously considering some counselling if I can afford it. I have realised that all the times I have felt off, aching everywhere, migraines, restless, confused, agitated, it’s in part, due to her behaviour and my fear of repercussions. I am even seeing a physio who told me my pain was stress related.

Thanks for reading x

OP I have a mum like that. I understand you so well.

My mum can be sweet as pie to everyone, but to me she is demanding, arrogant, rude, depressive, talks to me as if I am a child, and this year I decided enough was enough. I made a decision that it was not going to get to me, and I would just agree with her, talk about mundane stuff with her, and go grey rock. My mum has zero empathy for most people, yet can be so charming and kind. Its really confusing.

I hear you, understand all too well. I have two other siblings, and boy does she treat them differently. Its painful as I was always hoping that the mum she shows up as sometimes, would stick, but no, I get varied versions of her depending on what she needs from me. And I know its got nothing to do with me as a person, but all to do with how she views her world.

Hugs to you, OP. Your post resonates. It’s tough. Something that gives me peace is to tell myself “If I was thinking and believing what she thinks and believes, I’d act the same way she does.”

@TheAvidWriter Thanks for replying and sorry you are dealing with the same issues.

I can’t shed another tear over her. It affects my family not just me. I go quiet and want to be alone as a way of dealing with my feelings and hurt. The know what’s happening and can’t do anything to help really. My DH listens to hours of ranting and crying and self doubt. I am going round and round in circles and my heaD is so confused.

I am not wanting to be a victim. Far from it, I want to take steps to deal with how I feel but I don’t know how. She is very clever and vindictive hence the last message. All contrived to make me feel guilt. She could have called my DD and not got me involved at all but that wouldn’t have the effect she desires would it! Saying she doesn’t want to miss anymore of her life implies that I am withholding their contact?! I haven’t even told my DD she hasn’t spoken to me for weeks.

It’s all a control game.

Does anyone have any advice please?

Speaking as someone with a mother like this. NC for 7 years. Only regret is not doing it sooner.

My biggest reason for that regret? The emotional energy she stole from me that cast a huge shadow over a significant portion of my DD's childhood.

You will never get this time back with your child, OP. Your mother has really done a number on you. I'd research FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt). If you are not ready to go NC, then for the sake of your time with your daughter, you will want to become better with setting boundaries (which I know is impossible with people like this.) But it's not about how she reacts to you setting them--it's about how YOU react. You can only control your own actions.

The last thing you want is to look back on your daughter's childhood and feel that so many special moments your mind was elsewhere, or there was a bad energy when there shouldn't have been. That is a regret you will feel much deeper than standing up to your toxic, demanding mother.

Have no advice but understand completely and sympathise. Had v similar experience with my mother, v stressful. Didn't go no contact with her, but half wish i had, the stress caused by someone like that is huge. Also had similar instances to that you describe with your dd. Maybe getting some counselling is a good idea?

Wish you all the best, it's definitely not you, and I hope you can find some way of feeling less stressed. It's so sad really, her kind of behaviour destroys your relationship with her even when she's behaving reasonably because you know it won't last. Take care.

If you can't afford therapy, look up on YouTube: Jerry Wise, Dr. Ramani, and Sherri Cambell. Sherri also has some EXCELLENT books.

When your mum complains she hasnt heard about DDs trip, you suggest she tries ringing her and asking her. Let's face if she really wanted to know she would have done just that.
Can you mute her? Change your number for everyone but her and only check that phone once a day? You cannot change her behaviour but you can change how you respond to it. Don't rise to her.
You need to put boundaries in place about what and when you can do for her. You have s job and a family and you can't just run round after her.
Good luck OP it sounds very difficult.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

I do think I need to get a grip with her. I say I am going to have boundaries etc but I just go right back to what I have always done and that’s not working for me. Part of me just does it because I am scared of the repercussions. Hence the problem this time. It was all because I refused to engage and the punishment was silence.

I found something I had wrote some months back (I write to try and get things straight in my head). It was another similar situation where she had created a problem over Mother’s Day. A problem that really didn’t exist.

I lost my DF in December after 6 months of illness and in and out of ICU (traumatic brain injury). She framed it that she was supportive and she did come to visit with me, but it wasn’t support when I look back. It was her emotions, her that I had to support as well as my DF and me! It was all about her even then. My parents divorced many years ago and my DF didn’t like her much. She made inappropriate comments and told everyone she was his “best friend”. I asked why she said that and not that she was my DM or his ex wife and the reason was all to do with what other people would think about her being the ex!! My DF often got angry with her even in his confused state because she was stroking his hand and saying to me “I don’t think he will life long”

She is an absolute liability. I haven’t had the strength to even reply to her last message. Part of me hopes she won’t message again!

I think work offer staff some counselling so I will look into this and the suggestions made.

@Daysgo thanks for your lovely words.

It has completely eroded any positive connection we had. I now spend most of our time together watching what I am saying. I don’t need her for anything and I keep most personal things to myself. She only knows the boring stuff. I don’t ask her advice or for any help at all. I have done this over a number of years. She doesn’t get invited to my home very often and when she does come, I dread it. There is still more work to be done but every time she behaves like this, it pushes me even further away.

I more or less live with my 82 year old mother. Very stressful at times specially as my mother could live for another ten or fifteen years

What repercussions do you think she can actually exact on you.
Over the parcel for example?

@TheAvidWriter I am sorry that you are dealing with the same as me. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I am continually anxious. My DM is very covert with everything. She is very needy and is always a victim. I try to understand her. She is elderly and life isn’t the same for her but she fails to see the positives. She lives alone and is very independent. She is a clever lady but yet plays the victim. All she talks about are her illnesses. I have empathy but I don’t want to know everything that’s wrong with her. I am not a GP or counsellor.

I’m going through this with a relative and I understand how soul-destroying and draining it is. It takes over your life. I’m in therapy now, and it helps me to get clear about where my boundaries lie. I also talk to chatgpt for advice between therapy sessions.

You say you’re scared of the repercussions of going low or no contact. What do you think will happen?

@DoRayMeMeMe so regarding the parcel situation, I am fearful of her falling out and how that makes me feel. We went away and I had to keep taking myself away because I was crying all the time. She makes me feel low, upset, used. I lose my confidence and don’t know what to do. The situation plays over and over in my head as I try to work out if it was me or her.

I am also frightened that it will go back to normal again and then I am waiting for the next time she does it and all those feelings I will have again.

The last time we had a big fall out was when I took her shopping. I had been on holiday for work the week before. My FIL had passed away a couple of months before. She got mad at me in the car for not telling her I was off work for a week. I tried to explain that we were dealing with my FILs things and I just didn’t think to tell her. She then turned on my DD saying she only text my DM when she sent her some money and didn’t call her which is what she would have liked her to do.

It ended with her getting out of the car and telling me to go, so I did. I drove home in tears. A little later I got the most hideous text from my DB who lives miles away. It went on and on saying I was despicable and if DM had a heart attack with the stress it would be me to blame. It was really horrible and he told me not to contact him again. We now have no contact but that’s okay, he is too much like DM anyway.

So this is what she is capable of. Also, it makes me question if I am the bad one and I don’t want to wear that crown. I am just so scared of being the one that is blamed.

Hope that makes sense x

I am also frightened that she will die and we will be going through another issue and that I will not be able to get over the guilt.

It’s the guilt mainly. She always says to me “don’t do anything you will feel guilty about”. Also, she has spent years installing guilt into every interaction. Guilt has been used to manipulate me and my life in order to get her needs met. It’s very powerful.

I feel really sorry for you Peter. She’s mean to you and that’s not how it should be.

Do read around this sort of thing to help you with your guilt. She’s conditioned you but you CAN overcome it. You can be at peace with yourself and your boundaries, but it takes putting theory into practice and it’s scary. Try to think how you would advise your daughter if a friend were like this to her. I wish you lots of luck - horrible mums are not what any one of us wants or needs in life. It’s very damaging.

Please get therapy! She’s such a piece of work and none of you deserve to spend any more time with her.

Ignore her. There's no question in that message - just statements that require no reply.

She knows she has this effect on you and she gets off on it. Seize the power back by not replying and taking back control of your mental health.

You owe it to yourself and your child to come up with a reasonable way of having a relationship (if you don’t want to go nc).

if you’re closer physically and doing the burden of chores then just stop or suggest DM
or brother pay for a contractor / courier / shopping delivery / maid … be the role you want to be (and opt out of the roles you don’t).

have regular conversations on your terms. I find that being en route to an activity or home from work limits the discussion to a manageable period of time with a natural cut off.

if you can seek counselling do.

Op its awful they worse in their 80s. I nearly flipped yest from stress of it all. Loads time to plot too lol. Im finding this being on road is draining too. Im back in sept school job will not be doing as much then. Oh im your mother if i dare speak out which I do

🙋‍♀️expert survivor here!

You need to read Out of the FOG.

read up on grey rock.

accept you can’t win- nothing will be enough, you can’t make her happy or win her approval. She’ll never be the mum you deserve.

So the game changes to- managing the situation to your comfort.
Give her the least information possible, don’t give her material to use against you- holiday? I can’t remember the last time I went on holiday etc.
Don’t engage emotionally- this is a strategy game not a relationship.
Work out your boundaries- twice a week you will phone her, visit/do errands once at the weekend. Turn your phone on silent. When you ring, say you’ll see her Saturday.

no confrontation- avoid avoid avoid. Your phone is a bit glitchy, can’t understand how you missed her calls, having lits of spam calls so I keep the phone on silent.

Be evasive. The job is protecting yourself, not engaging in a relationship.

you’ll get really good at it, it will be second nature.

Thanks everyone and I am sorry you are dealing with it too.

I will make a real and conscious effort to protect myself and my family from her behaviour.

I won’t be continually asking if she needs help or if I can do anything for her. She is a big girl and is quite able to ask me for help. I run around after her like a lunatic! I will also stop reacting to all her constant messages she sends, at all hours. I am not jumping on her every call. I want to limit the amount of time I spend answering her messages.

i don’t want to visit her so will be limiting that. I often visited once a week except if I was away or had something happening. Even that has proven too much. I end up having to stay for hours as she doesn’t like it if I leave too early. It’s too much for me.

As for my DD, why can’t my DM contact her if she is so interested in her life. She never once picks up the phone to see how she is. Does it all through me, well I wonder why she does that! She can stop using me as a go between.

I would not be encouraging a direct relationship between your mother and your DD. I'm sure your DD wouldn't take her side but you know what your mum is capable of.

Please don't feel guilty OP. If you're going to feel guilty it should be that you're letting your mother cast a shadow over time with your family. Don't let her make you ill. Nothing you do will ever be good enough for her so you may as well do nothing.