On phone in stationary traffic

[Charttopper]

NC for this. I'm wondering if any legal folk have advice or whether you all think IABU.

A few weeks ago I was stopped at traffic lights for some time in standstill traffic so I briefly picked up my phone to look at a message that had come through. I was on my own with my baby in the back. Suddenly I was aware of something to my right and when I turned, there was a man in a high vis jacket on a bicycle, stopped right next to my door, and bending down to stare at me through my window. He didn't engage, just stared straight at me for what felt like an age. His position meant that I couldn't get out of the car and it felt very intimidating. I didn't know what his intentions were, or what he'd do next.

He then cycled off ahead and stopped by the windows of one or two other drivers and did the same thing. I felt quite shaken by the experience.

I later learned that he either reported me or was an undercover policeman as he had filmed me on my phone with his helmet camera.

I have now received 6 points and a £200 fine. I accept that the law states that checking your phone including when stationary is an offence so I am not disputing that there should be a consequence.

However, I can't help but feel that 6 points is a disproportionate punishment given that I was stationary and not actually causing risk. If I was moving it would be a different matter but I was not driving without due care and attention, i was stationary with the break on.

Secondly, the method of capturing this footage - a man staring into a woman's car, on her own with a baby, and instilling fear and blocking her in surely is not acceptable?

Can I challenge any of this?

I dont think that's always true.

Mobile phone use is always illegal, amd a specific offence.

Other distractions might be cause for a careless driving charge, wad always my inderstanding.

Happy to be corrected and Ill use my cup holder for something else!

So it's not ok to HOLD a mobile phone and use it but it's ok to use a mobile phone if it's in a holder.

Using devices hands-free
You can use devices with hands-free access, as long as you do not hold them at any time during usage. Hands-free access means using, for example:

• a Bluetooth headset
• voice command
• a dashboard holder or mat
• a windscreen mount
• a built-in sat nav

The device must not block your view of the road and traffic ahead.

I know that's the difference in law. I can see people still being distracted though if they are not holding the phone but still using the device.

Ha ha good point!

The cyclist was at no risk because the car was stationary. I accept it's the law, the OP has to accept the penalty, just pointing out that no-one was at risk because she wasn't actually driving at the time in any real sense.

If you are doing anything in your car that means you are distracted and you cause an accident you can get done for driving without due care and attention. It's just not using your phone is a specific law. If you were seen to be rummaging in your bag, playing with the radio etc was then in an accident and someone saw you the police will look at whether you were distracted. If you are driving you are driving and should be 100% concentrating on the road.

Your doubling down just makes you sound worse, if you really want to know what its like to feel intimidated and endangered by other road users, try cycling

So ignore red lights as well if the road is empty?

I don't think that's equivalent in terms of risk

He may have been a policeman, they do do this it's their job to catch idiots who think they can break the law and not get caught. They won't necessarily tell the driver they have been caught at it's stops them catching others and alerts others as to who they are.
Whether you agree with the law or not it's beside the point, we all know you can't hold your phone at all whilst driving let alone use it.
You can use a touchscreen built into you car, but even that can get you in trouble if you are in an accident and the police can prove it distracted you. I have Android auto in my car so all the actions are voice activated if I need to turn say nav on our send a message, which I would still only do in an absolute emergency.

I don’t understand why it’s acceptable for the cyclist to be actively concentrating on filming something rather than paying attention to the road and traffic. I think both the OP and cyclist are at fault here.

If you "looking for something in my handbag while at the lights" caused an accident, then you could be charged with careless driving 🤷♂️

In summary, let's be reasonable that checking your phone when stationary is not causing danger in that immediate moment, unlike reading your phone whilst actually driving which is dangerous (and inexplicably remains legal if you're reading on your car screen).

However, I do take on board the point that it is a distraction and you're potentially not aware of your surroundings so could then go on to cause a problem if you don't focus before pulling away. To those who have kindly noted this, thank you for making me think on this.

And thanks again for those coming to my defence against the scolders 😂

The risk to the cyclist is that you look up, realise the light is green, and move without checking your mirrors.

Edit... cross post as you realised that!
If you look at statistics the most common cause of cyclist fatalities is the driver not seeing the cyclist.

Really?
Why? It’s the OP who acted irresponsibly and illegally.

@RigIt "I agree there’s absolutely zero risk in doing what you did" she "suddenly" noticed the chap at her window. If she was paying attention she would have seen him approaching from behind.

Actually because my two children have learned to drive in the last 5 years I have watched a lot of driving instructor videos, dash cam fuck ups which are plentiful on YouTube and an insurance claims person who now narrates crash videos and talks about who is at fault and what the highway code states.

If memory serves, there was a case of a person using their mobile phone in stationary traffic. It was a couple of lanes, a family decided to cross between the cars and the lights changed. The person using their phone had not seen the family and although the adults stopped, their young child did not and the driver ran him over. Now I know people would argue it was a one off but personally I don't think it is.

You are meant to check ALL mirrors before moving off from traffic lights because in stationary traffic both cyclists and motorbikes can weave through and if you are not paying attention to the environment you might not spot this or blue lights coming up behind you in the distance before you can hear the sirens.

The cyclist is wearing a camera on their helmet usually to report the drivers who pass them dangerously, maybe watch some of those dash cam videos on YouTube. Also my car screen will read a message aloud, I just tap a button once. I can also reply verbally and replying is the major issue here, you get a message, you look at the lights, then start replying.

I cant help thinking though that there should be a ln Awareness course for "first offense," like with speeding. As it seems many don't realise why its the law.

But....after all of that, you do tap your phone screen and reply to messages whilst driving?!

Its silly to say it’s legal to read messages on you car screen when you could still be stopped and charged for even if you haven't technically broken the law on handheld device use. Imagine if you were checking messages on your car screen and were involved in a bad accident the police would check and prosecute.

I’ve copied this bit below

The offence of driving without due care and attention is defined in Section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.
The actual legal phrase in the legislation states that a person is guilty of an offence if they drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place
"without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place."
The legislation further clarifies what this means: a person is to be regarded as driving without due care and attention if (and only if) the way they drive "falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver."

C’mon there has been so much publicity about this. If anyone says they didn’t know they are lying

@Charttopper no I actually don't because nothing can be that important. I don't take calls either. It is just a feature of my new car. But then I didn't grow up with a mobile phone glued to my hand, I went to school before mobile phones existed, when you needed an emergency 10p for a phone box to ring your Mum.

I grew up with scheduled tv, so we learned to wait, it was normal to wait.

If anyone doesn't know the laws fcor driving thry5 shouldn't be driving people dont need to know reasons for laws they need to follow thrm

That goes for speeders, red light jumpers, middle lane huggers etc too but there is awareness courses for them.

Let's face it... many drivers wouldn't pass a Driving test now.

I’ve learned quite a bit from reading this thread.

Absolutely all of this.

Shame it needed spelling out 🤨

Any journey I make - even a 5 minute one to the Supermarket is filled with roughly 30% of Drivers on their phones.
This is only the ones driving past me in the opposite direction, or behind me.
It's an accident waiting to happen.
Someone ran into the back of me in traffic once, 100% on her phone and not noticing the conditions had changed.

If you don’t break the law then none is going to film you through your window.

You created the situation you want to complain about 🤦🏼♀️