To think rich people steal money all the time and that’s often why they’re rich?

[MyAmusedOpalCrab]

We hear so much about “hard work” and “smart investments” but let’s be honest, so many rich people didn’t get wealthy by being ethical. From dodgy business practices to exploiting workers, tax dodging, insider deals and straight-up corruption, wealth often comes at someone else’s expense.

Governments bail out billionaires while ordinary people struggle to afford rent. CEOs cut wages and benefits while pocketing massive bonuses. Huge corporations find loopholes to avoid taxes while the rest of us get squeezed.

Obviously not every rich person is a thief but AIBU to think that a lot of them are? That the system is rigged in their favour and they keep getting richer by bending or outright breaking the rules?

What would you consider "superwealthy"? £50m plus?

I know a lot of people who are in the region of £10m - £14m, some are friends, some family members. I guess it's not super rich, but I would consider it wealthy.

Then you might be interested to know that the PPE scandal caused by the greedy pals of the then Tory government cost over £15 billion plus actual (British) lives. Most of the culprits were already rich.

Or don’t they count, because they were mostly white, British and Tory with proper accents?

ISAs are tax avoidance, as are pension contributions and salary sacrifice schemes, and all are perfectly legal.

The so called Matthew principle is just one more example of people using religion to justify nefarious behaviour.

for me is the billionaire class that i consider super wealthy

Are you actually serious?

Bollocks, and it’s subjective anyway. I’d consider that we’re pretty well off now, with total assets (house, pensions) just over £1m. I was never presented with good choices to choose between. I came from a council estate, with one alcoholic mental ill parent and one in and out of depression. I knew I didn’t want my life to turn out like that, so I worked and married and we built together, saving and scrimping to almost pay off our mortgage and save; no debt other than mortgage, but also no fancy holiday until recently when finances have got easier. I’d consider us rich, if we realised all our assets.

Me too. Why mention “rich people” and not benefit cheats? Is it not the same?

Totally agree. I know many instances where people are claiming the highest PIP benefits while getting their rent fully paid and have jobs paying above average wage. I blame the government for not sorting it out.

Where did I say that squandering £15 billion was acceptable?

If you google ten richest men in the world all of them are self made. They didn't start from dirt poverty admittedly, but from very ordinary middle class background.

It's so convenient to think that rich are rich because they steal. Because the flip side of accepting that they deserve their wealth is accepting that those who are poor deserve being so.

Charlie Mullins (Pimlico Plumbers, worth 70m+ IIRC) was born on council estate, father factory worker and mother cleaner. Alan Sugar grew up on council estate as well.

Before WW2 your parents would most definitely define your outcomes. In our time, excluding significant health issues, it's all down to own skills, intelligence, ambition, resilience, charisma, you can rise really high. Especially with all drive by unis and employers to support youngsters from deprived backgrounds. But no, only very few still make it and the rest conveniently blame circumstances or present it like OP, "I'm so good, I can't be rich because of my high morals".

You saying you didn't have good choices to choose between and then go on to list the good choices you have made in your life. EH?

You think that escaping poverty by getting dead-end jobs and working your way up, and getting married and scrimping every penny are good choices from good choices? I made choices from bloody bad situations. if mine were good choices from good choices, what would you consider no good choices to choose between would be?

Can you give me one example of a society in which the Matthew principle does not apply? It can be from anywhere in the world and from any time in history.

You ask “in what universe”. Well it’s ……
in our universe since time immemorial. There have always been leaders and subordinates, rich and poor, beautiful and ugly, intelligent and stupid. You will never change human nature.

Bitter much? Work hard. Earn money. Spend less than you earn. Save for things you need or want (delayed gratification) rather than sticking it on a credit card and paying interest for immediate gratification. Save any surplus income. Don't make enough in one job to do what you want to do? Get a second one. Short term pain of working long hours for long term gain. Yes there will be people who work the system at both the top (rich) and the bottom end (never worked a day in their life but have every benefit going - no I'm not talking disabled people here but people who have several generations on benefits) but by and large wealth (which by the way, looks different for every person - one person's poor might be another person's rich) is earned and increased by excellent budgeting skills.

@dementedmummy so how's that plan you've outlined there working for you? Are you a billionaire yet, having followed it? If so, what part would you say "excellent budgeting skills" played in your journey?

Barbadossunset · Today 21:02
Hatred of unfairness
Blossomtoes how much money can someone have before it becomes unfair?

More than they can spend in a lifetime.

But spend on what. Who is going to monitor and vet spending and whether it’s valid or not, whether it meets the “right” criteria.

Honestly, why? This makes NO sense. The super rich have bought up all the assets. They've basically bankrupted the government by buying everything and then renting it all back to the nation at inflated costs and dodging paying tax wherever possible as well as feeding this nonsense into everyone's heads as they own the media. It really isn't benefit cheats and boat people that are taking everything is the super rich. We need to tax wealth not work!!

Benefits cheats make up a tiny fraction of the benefits bill. The billions lost in tax breaks and loopholes for the ultra rich is staggering by comparison.

Nadim Zahawi former Chancellor of the Exchequer was found to have not paid £3.7 million in tax. Instead of being arrested and prosecuted, he was allowed to pay a 30% fine and it was forgotten about.
So anyone on here going on about benefit cheats, yes they should be prosecuted and we should all be equal under the law.
BUT WE AREN'T.
The rich steal from us all the time. They just dress it up with loopholes and excuses.
Lady Michelle Mone making £60+ million from PPE that was useless!!!
I am a progressive but i also believe in a little compassionate capitalism. I think people should be able to get rich if they work hard and invest wisely.
However, let's be frank, corporate interests are more important than people. That's why white collar crime is rarely prosecuted. They all have each other's backs.
Folk can get rich, and be decent but instead most often they do it at our expense. Extortion and harm seem to be their forte because its never enough money!!

Just because one is less than the other, doesn't make it right.

Tax / benefit fraud are both bad. No morals on both sides.

Absolutely this. 100%

😒

How can you work your way up in dead end jobs? They're not dead end if you can work your way up surely? I'm not criticising what you've achieved - good for you, it sounds like you deserve it but it does sound like you had some decent choices along the way like being able to marry well and have career opportunities that many don't.