Do you believe there will be a civil war?

[exhaustedandwholly]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if others feel the same. With everything going on, from the arrival of illegal migrants in small boats to a government that seems powerless, and with Farage gaining popularity because people are fed up, it feels like tension is rising across the country.

People are frustrated. You try to raise concerns and are instantly labelled a racist or bigot, even when your worries are about integration, safety, and national identity, not race. It feels like any honest conversation is being shut down.

There are parts of the UK where people who were born and raised here no longer feel at home. In some areas, if you are not part of the dominant local community, you can feel completely out of place or even unsafe walking alone at night. That is not right in your own country.

It is not just about people coming from Muslim-majority countries or those arriving illegally. There are also large numbers of Eastern Europeans, including Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians. Many work hard and contribute, but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate. Some of these areas are experiencing rising antisocial behaviour, crime, and a breakdown of community life.

You can find videos online showing the state of some of these areas, with rubbish piling up, people ignoring the rules, and no sign of enforcement. It looks lawless, and it often is. But speaking about it honestly is considered of limits.

I live next to a Muslim family and they are wonderful people. Friendly, respectful, hardworking. So this is not about judging individuals. This is about a wider pattern where people are arriving, not integrating, and changing the fabric of our country in ways no one voted for.

We are a Christian country with our own traditions, values, and way of life. Why is it seen as wrong to want to preserve that? If we moved to Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria, or Russia, we would be expected to adapt to their culture. So why is it unacceptable to ask the same here?

The anger and division in this country are growing. I do not want unrest or conflict, but I cannot ignore what feels like a serious shift. When ordinary people feel ignored for too long, things eventually boil over.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it anymore?

Are you seriously arguing for mass immigration and demographic change because you don’t like the way fish is fried? If so, I agree and it’s the only justification so far that I agree with. You can burn down 2000 years of civilisation if I can just get one half decent chippy in London,

No, I would never say it was migrants who are the underclass. That certainly isn’t the case in the area I live in. It’s all white British, who have all lived on the estates round me for generations now who are.

And while it’a not a nice term, it’s true. A lot don’t work, so they aren’t working class. They truly are scum. Not nice to hear, I know, but it’s true. Spend a day with me and you’d see it for yourself. It’s awful the way they behave and they think it’s completely normal.

The immigrant families here live with a lot more decorum. Their children do better. There are a couple of grammar schools 30 mins away. My daughter was the only one from her school to take the 11+, no one else bothers (he school is all families from the estates and surround stresses, mainly white), there is no aspiration here at all.

The grammar she is going to, the demographics is largely Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi. Those are the parents who are pushing thier children, instilling education in them, sitting with them for hours and hours a week for two years doing 11+ practice
papers, paying for tutoring.

When I refer to the underclass, from my own lived experience, I am talking about the other British people I live around.

Not a connoisseur here, so cod/haddock doesn't make a huge difference to me. At our local, cod ends up in the cabinet, haddock always fresh.

😂😂😂Perversely there are two bloody amazing chippies with freshly fried fish within minutes of my "newish house" (been here a year) and the portions are GIGANTIC - talk 12 inch long fish! I am in heaven (although my weighing scales are not!). I moved from a very ethnically diverse area where every chippy had been taken over by "immigrants" and all the fish was soggy from the cabinet.

I should perhaps add that one is owned by an "immigrant" and the other is not. And they both do a roaring trade, shutting at 9pm as they don't need the late night trade.

Still not sure whether soggy or crisp is "British" though.

My favourite in London was Rock Salmon ...

One of the only good things about living in the Black Country, for me, is the Chippies. You need to come up here, Bab.

I can walk to Halesowen from where I live ...

Come up towards Dudley way! I mean, keeep your car doors locked, but we got good chips 😆

Just think of all the money and all the effort and resources that are ploughed into migrants was put to use raising the aspirations of those people you call “scum” maybe then these people would escape this cycle in a couple of generations. Imagine all that money spent on decent housing, formal and informal education. Imagine the passion and energy of those demanding we take in undocumented foreigners was applied to our own and we raised them up rather than those people being described as “scum”

I think if there are any foreigners reading then:

1. you;re not welcome. Go away 😀
2. if you want to understand a little about the British psyche, then ponder on the suggestions of travelling to find the epitome of a dish of fried fish and potatoes and how quickly it distracted from the knife-sharpening.

We’re pretty lucky. Mucking about posting on a parenting site rather than so much other stuff women / children/ people endure.

Thank you.

@NaicePeachJoker

"You can burn down 2000 years of civilisation if I can just get one half decent chippy in London"

London has the most vibrant economy, great schools, hospitals, theatres, restaurants, museums, arts and music scene, wonderful architecture, world class parks, incredible heritage.... all with 40% of London residents being born outside the UK. IE - our civilisation is fine thanks.

You sound like you hate this country. Maybe you should emigrate. Apparently there are very few brown people or Muslims in Moscow.

@EasternStandard

"We’re pretty lucky. Mucking about posting on a parenting site rather than so much other stuff women / children/ people endure."

I was reflecting on this while listening to a contributor to GB news complaining about severely injured Palestinian children being brought to the UK for surgery. Their primary concern was that these children would have their parents and siblings with them, and we might not be able to immediately deport them all back to the hellscape they'd come from after surgery.

Some of us have been not simply "demanding" but "doing" for 50 years - for both our compatriots and for migrants. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. There is passion and energy amongst migrants as well - more than there will ever be with some of "our own". I wouldn't refer to large groups of people as scum, but the lumpen proletariat have a function in capitalist society, and they are significantly harder to "shift" than you might think. Doesn't mean there should be no effort, but it really isn't as simple as decent housing or education. I wish it was.

They don’t want to change! They aren’t miserable, they bloody love it, fighting among themselves, gossiping. They live for it. They encourage thier children to be the same way.

There have been so many incentives, free lessons in everything, cooking, adult education, they don’t want it.

They used to get bussed in from here to be on Jeremy Kyle, when I first moved here, a few of them couldn’t wait to show me clips of when they were on it.

I wish to God, you could come and spend a week here. You’d think they were scum too and you’d raise they are having a great time and don’t want to change.

The local school have improved so much, they try so hard and all the parents do is smoke weed at the gates and fight at pick up.

@MyHeartyCoralSnail

"Just think of all the money and all the effort and resources that are ploughed into migrants was put to use raising the aspirations of those people you call “scum” maybe then these people would escape this cycle in a couple of generations. Imagine all that money spent on decent housing, formal and informal education. Imagine the passion and energy of those demanding we take in undocumented foreigners was applied to our own."

Just to be clear - do you want the UK to stop offering refuge to everyone and anyone? Including people escaping war torture and persecution in countries like South Sudan and Iran?

The UK spent about 4.3 billion a year on asylum seekers last year - it came out of the international aid budget. Had it been spent on international aid, most of the money would have left the UK. But as it was spent on asylum seekers it was spent in the UK, generating tax income and supporting local economies.

To put this amount into perspective - because you think if it could be reduced to nothing (and obviously the money not go back into foreign aid), UK spending on education last year was 116 billion.

And most or all of that was established whilst most people living in London were born in the UK.

London, Birmingham, Manchester and many other cities have experienced a massive decline in safety and social cohesion which has coincided with an explosion in immigration.

Please tell me where the good chipys are in Moscow?

Actually, maybe the people should stay and sort out those countries..why do we have a responsibility to any of them? If all we do is let unlimited people come here, the problems in those countries will continue.

The wasting of educational budgets is a completely separate issue.

How do you know none of them want to change. I’ve lived in some very rough areas, my secondary school was full of people similar to what you describe. So I know the people you’re talking about.

Do you know why they look like they’re enjoying their situation, it’s because they think they have no choice.They create a sub culture because they feel it’s “us against the world” they know they are likely to have very few opportunities to it’s easier to criticise them and pretend it’s not something they want.

You clearly have no understanding of others and prefer to stereotype.

Lets help our own overcome the real issues they face in this country before importing others to sort out the problems created in foreign countries.

Would you like people to mock Islam? Or any other religion?

I live here. I work here. I know people. I work for countless community projects through my work that are consistently sabotaged by some of the locals who don’t want it. I volunteer at my kids school, I see teachers getting screamed at when I’m at drop off and pick up.

Thats how I know. I’m here, day in, day out talking to people. I’ve never met anyone crying into thier Stellas about thier life.

Education is free. The school has had so many improvements. A lot of the parents fight against everything.

They will not give their children the opportunities that are there for the taking. They just won’t do it.

I live it everyday. That’s how I know.

And there are lots of poor immigrants as well. People who work hard but have very little cash. I work with them and they often have three or four siblings sharing one room. But many do have a mentality still where education is a way out of this. They are strict with their children about studying, possibly too much so. They can’t afford private school so try and get their children into the grammar schools.

I think many people from poor countries still value education and respect it in a way that perhaps is getting lost here in the UK, nothing to do with having money ‘ploughed’ into them. But that’s another thread…

Yes, I know. I mentioned that in a an earlier post. The demographic of our closest grammar is largely Asian.

When we run funded cooking classes, it’s always, always the Indian ans Pakistani families who come in, wanting to help, asking if they can donate food, asking if they can have their children join.

I am not talking about immigrants. The vast majority of the people on the grim estates around me are white British.