To not go on holiday on Monday

[Theteenandme]

Almost 15yr old is being horrible to me basically all the time. Im glad if your kids are always wonderful to you but those comments wont help me so please dont.

After another day of her being nasty, Ive had enough.

My husband (her dad) essentially says things like "I wasnt there" etc so doesnt back me up. He doesnt do much with her by himself. Day trips etc always fall to just me. I never used to mind because they were generally good. Now they are horrible. She can be grumpy with him but is very rarely nasty with him.

Ive had it. I am so worn down by it. Im so fed up of her being nasty. It bloody hurts.

I really dont know what I do most of the time to cause it. Today for instance all was fine and then like a switch went, it wasnt. Something just changed in a second. When I asked if she was OK she said "no because Im with you. I dont like you so I dont like being here".

We are all meant to be going away on Monday. It's only a short train ride so not far. Ive told my husband Im not going. The idea of more of the same. I need a break. She probably does as well tbh.

He isnt happy. I think it's that he is disappointed that its meant to be a family holiday as much as a week of sole parenting. They'll go and theyll probably have a lovely time and then he'll say her attitude is because of something I do.

He wants to talk about it. I've said there is nothing to talk about.

I was vile at that age and ruined every family outing. Looking back I have no idea why really other than I didn’t want to go and my parents made me. By the time I was 17 my family left me at home and didn’t force me to come on holidays etc and we were all the better for it.

honestly - i would let her go on holiday with her dad and you stay home
or
you go (alone!)

I would explain clearly you both need some time apart and it will make you all the better for it!

Please don’t miss your holiday because she’s being unpleasant. I have DS (15) and DD (13). DD is much harder work than DS. We’ve just got back from our holiday and both of them had their moments, but DD was worse. Rude, sulky, eye rolling at me - until she wanted a massage and her nails done at the spa…..

What worked for us (and it will depend on the type of holiday you have booked):

If they don’t want to get up until lunchtime, fine! DH and I would get up as normal and go to breakfast and the pool. It was quite nice having the morning to ourselves, DC would come down about lunchtime, by which point, they wanted to be there. We’d have lunch together, as they were usually hungry by then.

Day trips weren’t compulsory, those who wanted to go, were very welcome. Anyone who wanted to stay in the hotel, totally fine.

DD and I did have a nice afternoon in the spa - obviously she was on her best behaviour as I was paying and it was something she wanted to do. Nonetheless, she was pleasant and it was a great afternoon.

She did have a massive strop just before we went out to dinner one night. So we went out and left her in the hotel. It was an AI so she could go to the buffet if she wanted, but she actually just stayed in the room eating crisps. I think she was a bit surprised we went without her and it took the wind out of her sails a bit.

She enjoyed wandering round the local tat shops with EUR 20 buying cheap bracelets and local skin care.

Once we’d had dinner, if DC wanted to go back to the room whilst DH and I had another drink or watched the show, again absolutely fine.

I think they need a bit of freedom on holiday and not being coerced into doing things they don’t want to. It felt a huge waste to me for them lying in their beds until lunchtime on holiday and not something I want to do, but it is what they wanted to do. It didn’t impact on my holiday so just let them get on with it!

I love my mum very much and have a great relationship with her (on the whole) but I was awful to her in my teen years. She was tone deaf and didn’t give me enough emotional support (still doesn’t) but our relationship improved once I found that in my partner and stopped needing or asking her for it.

My dad was also emotionally distant but whilst I resented him just as much, I wasn’t nasty to him because I didn’t feel able to be. I wasn’t and still aren’t as comfortable with him.

Your daughter likely feels a reason for her disdain, but it doesn’t mean it’ll last. She also is likely expressing it to you because she feels safe to do so.

I think a conversation would help around you having feelings. How you want a good relationship and how her words hurt you. How you’re open to hearing her opinion and are willing to change if she needs that, and how you want to get along.

If she doesn’t respond well, then I’d ask her and your DH to stay home and use the time yourself. She needs to realise you’re a real person, and not an emotional punchbag. I still feel awful for how I treated my mum.

OP I once left our then 16 year old DD at home with her Dad for a week while I took the younger two away. She'd been awfully behaved for weeks, and it was all directed at me. So I told her Dad that he could cope for a week seeing as it was me that was the problem and left the two of them to get on with it.

And we had a lovely week - it did me the world of good to press the reset button. By the Wednesday DH was messaging "you're never leaving me to cope with this on my own again" as he was then the target of her hormone fuelled rage

And it did help. She was still angry but it diluted it as she knew that I had a limit.

OP I just wanted to sympathise. My son is behaving in a similar way and I’ve decided we are not going away as I cannot face it. Also have no back up from his father, we are divorced. He’s lovely to everyone apart from his siblings and me. I’m riding it out for now.

Personally I would drop her at her grandparents (if you can), then go away with your DH.

On the holiday remind your DH that you two are a team and you need support, but then have a great time.

If her grandparents are anything like my daughters, she will come back politer, grandparents whilst tending to spoil their grandchildren, can also scare the living hell out of them, without a conscience too haha

@Theteenandme my very wise late mother of myself, two sisters and a brother told me when my first was hard work as a little one that 'the teenage years are the worst'. She wasn't wrong, I think they're the worst for teenagers themselves as well as their parents and for teenage girls to be awful to their mothers in particular seems to be very common. Ignore the smug comments on here about delightful teens - I think it's luck of the draw. I had one who was a nightmare and one who was fine. Same parents! The lack of backup is fuel to the flames.
Is there a compromise for the holiday? Say to them all you think it would be good to have some space from each other, you stay home for a few days and then join them for the second half of the week as it isn't far away? Dh then gets the full parenting responsibility and might be more supportive going forward, and you still have part of the holiday as a family. Good luck with it all, these years do pass!

I don’t know but I’m with you on this. My 15 DD is similar and work has been stressful too, and last night I just took myself off to a hotel on my own and drank wine in the bath!

Don't miss your holiday. She's old enough to be left alone in the accommodation. Go and enjoy the holiday with your DH. Try and involve her but if she wants to sulk in her room leave her to it. It might actually be a chance for you and DD to reconnect but if not take it as a chance to have a break yourself.

Let them go together. Frame it that you and your daughter will benefit from time apart. It will do you both good.

I have sons that breezed through the teenage years. I have friends with daughters who became absolute nightmares as teens. None of them stayed horrid. Do whatever gets you through this bit if your husband can support your decision.

Ages and stages. No, not all teenagers are like this but many are by nature. I found the below helpful. If you skip the trip I bet she will wish you had been there. If you need the break and won't feel you're missing out I'd take the time to give yourself a breather.

Dear Parent: This is the letter that I wish I could write. This fight we are in right now. I need it. I need this fight. I can’t tell you this because I don’t have the language for it and it wouldn’t make sense anyway. But I need this fight. Badly. I need to hate you right now and I need you to survive it. I need you to survive my hating you and you hating me. I need this fight even though I hate it too. It doesn’t matter what this fight is even about: curfew, homework, laundry, my messy room, going out, staying in, leaving, not leaving, boyfriend, girlfriend, no friends, bad friends. It doesn’t matter. I need to fight you on it and I need you to fight me back. I desperately need you to hold the other end of the rope. To hang on tightly while I thrash on the other end—while I find the handholds and footholds in this new world I feel like I am in. I used to know who I was, who you were, who we were. But right now I don’t. Right now I am looking for my edges and I can sometimes only find them when I am pulling on you. When I push everything I used to know to its edge. Then I feel like I exist and for a minute I can breathe. I know you long for the sweeter kid that I was. I know this because I long for that kid too, and some of that longing is what is so painful for me right now. I need this fight and I need to see that no matter how bad or big my feelings are—they won’t destroy you or me. I need you to love me even at my worst, even when it looks like I don’t love you. I need you to love yourself and me for the both of us right now. I know it sucks to be disliked and labeled the bad guy. I feel the same way on the inside, but I need you to tolerate it and get other grownups to help you. Because I can’t right now. If you want to get all of your grown up friends together and have a ‘surviving-your-teenager-support-group-rage-fest’ that’s fine with me. Or talk about me behind my back--I don’t care. Just don’t give up on me. Don’t give up on this fight. I need it. This is the fight that will teach me that my shadow is not bigger than my light. This is the fight that will teach me that bad feelings don’t mean the end of a relationship. This is the fight that will teach me how to listen to myself, even when it might disappoint others. And this particular fight will end. Like any storm, it will blow over. And I will forget and you will forget. And then it will come back. And I will need you to hang on to the rope again. I will need this over and over for years. I know there is nothing inherently satisfying in this job for you. I know I will likely never thank you for it or even acknowledge your side of it. In fact I will probably criticize you for all this hard work. It will seem like nothing you do will be enough. And yet, I am relying entirely on your ability to stay in this fight. No matter how much I argue. No matter how much I sulk. No matter how silent I get. Please hang on to the other end of the rope. And know that you are doing the most important job that anyone could possibly be doing for me right now. Love, Your Teenager

I’m sure everyone else has lots of insightful and intelligent suggestions, based on their life experience, and also know of ways to deal with this type of situation.
My reaction to this is- either let them go without you or you go without them. No matter what shit is going on with you and your daughter, you need a break and some time to yourself. It doesn’t matter if your partner/husband normally steps up or not. Right now he just has to. Fact.
Right now you do you. They will all survive either way. Parenting is brutal at times. Take a moment, you’re doing great.

FYI, I’m looking at my 8 year old and thinking I can’t wait until you have your owns kids 😂

My dear, I'm afraid that you are the closest person to her, ergo......
This phase WILL pass, I promise!!
Big deep breath and calmness from you.
That's all you can do.
If daddy wants to be her best friend on holiday, let him, take some time to yourself and enjoy 😎

Bloody hell. This is AMAZING 👏
made me tear up a bit actually 🤗

Could you join them for part of the holiday?

Sometimes family holidays just don't work well with teens.

What would you all do together?

@sequin2000 I totally don't understand what you just posted

Fortunately, I'm not a parent. I obviously was a teenager. I don't know if this is better or worse, but I was the kind of teenager who was quite good at sneaking out and stuff. But picking fights for no reason is not part of my personality. I do think my dad had a tendency to want to have an argument for no reason sometimes but as a family, we managed to get him out of that habit. I don't really know where he got it from. Maybe because he grew up in a big family. Maybe it was a way of getting attention.

But it pissed me right off when I was a kid and it obviously pissed my mother off as well. So by the time I was a teenager, there were two of us to say "grow up" and he kind of had to!

so yeah, what's this all about? Rebellion isn't compulsory. But even if it was, surely there's a way to do it that doesn't involve just being downright nasty and irrational. This kid could join the army in less than two years. And apparently might get the vote.

I was a ‘difficult’ teenager and I’m afraid while very poignant, that monologue doesn’t resonate with me@sequin2000

I actively disliked my mother and hated her presence. She was authoritarian and didn’t know me at all. She was never interested in the person I was becoming. Everything was about her. If my interests didn’t align with her worldview she’d dismiss or belittle them. She never allowed me freedom or supported my interests. For example, even dinners were her way, I had no agency to cook my own or have different meal times etc. She was fine when we played her game, but any dissent was met with vicious 70s parenting discipline. My dad stood by and let it play out.

So from an early age I built a defensive wall and as a teenager being vile to her was my only power. To this day, we see each other daily (as she’s elderly and needs care) but she’ll never really have my heart.

By contrast I’ve let my children be who they are and we’ve built our lives around supporting that. We had teenage pushback of course, but once they went to secondary school we pretty much treated them like adults. They could have their adult freedoms as long as they showed adult responsibilty. We trusted each other and it worked. At one point my dd casually commented that we were ‘more like housemates than a family’ which hurt me at first but she meant it as a compliment, as that’s the domestic set up that teenagers prefer.

I don’t like this idea that daughters are more challenging than sons. Maybe the world is more painful and less tolerant of the issues girls face, and that’s reflected in their behaviour.

@sequin2000 should have attributed the source of this letter

"He wants to talk about it" I know you don't feel like it but I think it could be really useful for you @Theteenandme

Proposing a united front and how you need him to support you when your daughter is making things difficult, may make things easier?

Could he agree to stepping up?

I understand why you feel fed up but I don't think it's fair for you to be the one to miss the holiday. I wonder if it might be helpful, if you all go, for your husband to actually see what she's doing. If he says things like "I wasn't there" (he should back you up anyway) what happens if he is there? And if she is horrible to you, you can go and do your own thing on the holiday and he might get a better understanding of why you're feeling frustrated. Or go on your own holiday? Or leave the two of them at home?

What you should have said 'hmmimnotsurewhy' is that not all teens are vile pieces of shit in front of others! I believe that the vast majority can be vile to their parents at times, but they won't risk other people telling them what vile pieces of shit they are, so they do tend to behave better in front of other people.

I remember some of the things my DD said to me as a teen would have resulted in complete strangers telling her how absolutely vile she was, had she done it in public, but they only tend to do it at home, because they're testing you, in the same way that young children do.

I bet if you asked your friend, she would tell you that they're not always as well mannered, and respectful as they were in front of you!

Firstly, have a huge hug 🫂. I've got 15 year old twin girls & can resonate with your situation. They are at a difficult stage & blaming us for their bad moods means they feel comfortable & trust us to be their safe space. It's hard being sworn at & put down, but they are going through a really turbulent time in terms of hormonal changes & this is normal.

This resonates with me so much, you’ve put into words exactly how I feel. The only difference was it was my father and not my mother who was the ‘problem’ parent. Equally my mother sat and watched it go on. Being a ‘vile’ teenager was the only way I could try to stand up to him. But that meant according to him i was a pain in the ass and ruined things by being difficult, a view my sibling fully believed for years until he moved away and had his own family and can now see our father for who he really is.

I meant he wants to talk about the holiday. Not about creating a united front.

He doesnt think he does anything wrong. Yesterday he said "there are two sides to every story" while she was telling him how awful I was and how I'd spent the day shouting at her (I really, really hadn't even raised my voice at her. I fact Id been pretty much "that's nice dear, now try on these trousers please" all day. When she purposely left a bag with £300 of uniform unattended I did get cross anf told her she would have replaced it with her own money but even then I didnt shout at her).