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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wish Scottish nationalists would just bloody drop it

124 replies

Fragmentedbrain · 01/08/2025 07:53

How can they have learned nothing from Brexit? Why don't people understand the precious value of stability and safe supply chains?

Re this: www.heraldscotland.com/news/25355082.rebels-plot-secret-meeting-perth-prior-snp-conference/

OP posts:
GargoylesofBeelzebub · 01/08/2025 08:54

YANBU. The constitutional question is destroying Scotland. The nationalists are incapable of running the country properly because every decision is seen through a lens of how it will get them independence rather than what's right.

Donkeys, incapable of doing a good job, get voted in just because they wear the right colour rosette.

Fragmentedbrain · 01/08/2025 08:56

I also think it will screw defence for the whole of the isles which will probably be addressed with a particularly aggressive northern border but that won't stop the basic difficulty of an unknowable space beyond.

OP posts:
MrsArcher23 · 01/08/2025 09:00

SNP will rumble on for next few years but, if Reform take power in Westminster in 2029, Scottish independence will gain huge momentum again.

Hoardasurass · 01/08/2025 09:08

This is to be expected as they have nothing left.
Whatever you think of Alex Salmond as a man he was a brilliant politician who did wonders for Scotland and brought people together and sold us a viable dream. Then when he lost the independence vote he did the noble thing and stepped down which left us with Nicola Stergeon.
Stergeon has been a disaster for Scotland.
Instead of doing what Salmond did and bring people together and showing people how great Scotland could be she was more interested in the culture of Nicola.
This lead her to replace intelligent, competent MSPs with her sycophants and zealots.
What followed from that was the absolute destruction of Scotland, our education system, hospitals and public infrastructure all corrupted and a ghost of their former selves.
Now a good person/leader would have done the noble thing and stepped down, but not.our Nicola no she just tightened her grip by getting into bed (metaphorically) with the eco zealots and the gender zealots too. Everything became evil Westminsters fault and poor Nicola was the victim of them🤨
Like all wannabee dictators secrecy and witch burning became the game she played. 1st she went after kids trying to take a wrecking ball to family life with her named person bill (thankfully stopped by the crts), when that failed she started to turn our world class education system into an indoctrination factory that sold kids a lie and drove a wedge between parents and their children. Whilst simultaneously creating the rights of the child bill (stopped with a section 33 order) that amongst other things basically emancipated kids at 14. She then went all in gender ideology using it as a vehicle to get the power she wanted and silencing her detractors as evil "transphobic, homophobic and possibly racist bigots" (she actually tweeted that out).
There's so much more that could be said about that disaster of a woman and her government that rewarded failure with promotion (yes looking at you Usless Yousef) and has done so much harm to our people and country. But fortunately her house of cards came crashing down with a single photo of a male double rapist in pink skin tight leggings (thank you Isla Brison/Adam Graham).
Now though we're left with her sycophants and idiots who have nothing left, they cant say look how great we are, how well we've ruled over the past decade + instead all they have is a failed dream and wrecked country so they try the good old independence war cry but it won't work as people are angry up here change is coming and Swinney knows that after all his scheming to get in power hes going to be the nick leggings of the snp, they won't be back in power for a very long time (even with the dodgy pr voting system up here).
Optimistic you may think but the writing is on the wall and everyone including Swinney can see it

Viviennemary · 01/08/2025 09:09

I think the wish for independence is a lot weaker now than it was when they had the vote. Why didn't they just vote for it when they had the chance.

KassandraOfSparta · 01/08/2025 09:12

MrsArcher23 · 01/08/2025 09:00

SNP will rumble on for next few years but, if Reform take power in Westminster in 2029, Scottish independence will gain huge momentum again.

I think you are probably right but it's untrue to think that there is no appetite for Reform type policies in Scotland. We have had incidents of protests against asylum seekers and there are many people who wouldn't attend a protest but who have similar views. The SNP likes to pretend that Scotland is all different and special and the people here are very different to the rest of the UK and we're really not.

xILikeJamx · 01/08/2025 09:13

It's a weird sort of paradox that the people who don't want Scottish independence generally supported Brexit and vice versa.
You can use all the arguments you're making about Scotland to refer to Brexit and they're still valid.

My opinion at the time of the 2014 vote was that Scotland was better off in the UK, as a major player in the EU ("Better Together" and all that...). Now, however, I believe Scotland would be better off independent and as part of the EU (people can argue the what-ifs of how likely that is till they're blue in the face). The first step in that process would be an independent Scotland. Once that's achieved then there's no more need for nationalists in government and the country could move on.

I also feel like there's more urgency required with the continual rise of the far right across England. Scotland is generally a much more left-leaning country, so there will only be greater polarisation between England and Scotland which does not bode well for a union.

Personally I don't want the the likes of Reform gaining any major foothold in Scotland, however the reaction of the majority if that were to happen could weirdly be the catalyst for a united independence movement.

KassandraOfSparta · 01/08/2025 09:18

It's a weird sort of paradox that the people who don't want Scottish independence generally supported Brexit and vice versa

Not true, certainly in Scotland. My council area (East Dunbartonshire) was 61% against independence in 2014. We voted 71% remain in the Brexit referendum. This sort of result was replicated across many areas of Scotland. The SNP likes to pretend that all its supporters are very euro-friendly, but it's a lot more complex than that.

Yabberwok · 01/08/2025 09:20

Swiftie1878 · 01/08/2025 08:30

Oh, YABU. Let’s hope they have another referendum and vote Yes this time. Then the rest of us can stop having to listen to them moaning whilst taking more money per capita than we have out of our coffers.

So so true and given how miserable things are won't it be lovely to watch Scotland slowly go bust. Apologies to all the lovely Scots who realise that independence isn't an option at the present time.Given the SNPs leadership over the past few years.... alleged sexual predator, alleged embezzlement and pro men in female prisons.

The statements pre 2008 how they would be a financial powerhouse just like Iceland. The determination to get rid of nuclear weapons. The idea that they would breeze into Europe without considering that to do so would mean adopting the euro making cross boarder journeys into England very difficult. A hard boarder, customs and passport checks.

The need for the new eu visa entry scheme to be implemented even if the English are excluded, something that the rest of Europe have failed to do for about 4 years....hence why the British will be using EU passport gates again
Clueless. But it would be funny

Cardemomle · 01/08/2025 09:21

Yes, I suspect it would be an end to free prescriptions and no tuition fees.

Cardemomle · 01/08/2025 09:22

KassandraOfSparta · 01/08/2025 09:18

It's a weird sort of paradox that the people who don't want Scottish independence generally supported Brexit and vice versa

Not true, certainly in Scotland. My council area (East Dunbartonshire) was 61% against independence in 2014. We voted 71% remain in the Brexit referendum. This sort of result was replicated across many areas of Scotland. The SNP likes to pretend that all its supporters are very euro-friendly, but it's a lot more complex than that.

Thank you, that makes more sense.

SpaceRaccoon · 01/08/2025 09:34

It's a weird sort of paradox that the people who don't want Scottish independence generally supported Brexit and vice versa.

Definitely not - me and anyone I know were unkeen on both, for economic reasons.

naomisno1fan · 01/08/2025 09:39

It’s inevitable.

Sskka · 01/08/2025 09:46

MrsArcher23 · 01/08/2025 09:00

SNP will rumble on for next few years but, if Reform take power in Westminster in 2029, Scottish independence will gain huge momentum again.

That’s true only insofar as Reform taking power would indicate that we are undergoing a total realignment of politics on different lines from the traditional Labour-Tory/left-right split, and the SNP/independence could end up being the non-Reform side of that split as it plays out in Scotland.

But that’s very debatable imo – it’s just as likely the other side ends up being the same loose leftist/libertarian-capital/islamist/internationalist alliance that seems to be coalescing from the ashes of whatever that side of Labour is now.

The sad fact for the independence side is that 2014 was the absolute sweet spot for them—persuasive leader, decent economy, novelty, placid international situation, inept remain campaign, something of a demographic bulge—but now they’re tarnished by presiding over a decade of decay and they’re firmly tethered to the woke ship.

Also not only did they fail in 2014, they didn’t even get close. 11% is a huge margin in a two-horse race. Look at the second Quebec referendum in the 1990s for something that was a genuine knife edge, and even that got handled and never really returned.

Daysgo · 01/08/2025 09:50

Exactly op, how dare people have different opinions to you.

Outwiththenorm · 01/08/2025 10:00

You’d rather a Reform-Tory coalition government? Which let’s face it, is coming.

And the idea that the Scottish education and NHS are so appalling? I’d suggest living and working in England for some time as we do for a comparison - my aunt waits 6 weeks for a GP appointment in central England and friends in London are awaiting support for a child diagnosed with ADHD for 2 years. My DC had same day GP appointment when we were visiting Scotland recently. The English national curriculum is ridiculous, throwing masses of facts at 4 year olds then repeating the same things over and over to Y6.

The millions being spent on the power lines going all the way from Stornaway to the north of England would suggest that England does in fact need Scotland to stay.

Sskka · 01/08/2025 10:17

@Outwiththenorm “The English national curriculum is ridiculous, throwing masses of facts at 4 year olds then repeating the same things over and over to Y6”

???

The Scottish education was always recognised as superior as long as I can remember – but once the nationalists got hold of it it started declining, and now the English system ranks significantly higher.

Education is an absolutely terrible point to argue if you’re in favour of independence.

BoredZelda · 01/08/2025 11:15

Hoardasurass · 01/08/2025 09:08

This is to be expected as they have nothing left.
Whatever you think of Alex Salmond as a man he was a brilliant politician who did wonders for Scotland and brought people together and sold us a viable dream. Then when he lost the independence vote he did the noble thing and stepped down which left us with Nicola Stergeon.
Stergeon has been a disaster for Scotland.
Instead of doing what Salmond did and bring people together and showing people how great Scotland could be she was more interested in the culture of Nicola.
This lead her to replace intelligent, competent MSPs with her sycophants and zealots.
What followed from that was the absolute destruction of Scotland, our education system, hospitals and public infrastructure all corrupted and a ghost of their former selves.
Now a good person/leader would have done the noble thing and stepped down, but not.our Nicola no she just tightened her grip by getting into bed (metaphorically) with the eco zealots and the gender zealots too. Everything became evil Westminsters fault and poor Nicola was the victim of them🤨
Like all wannabee dictators secrecy and witch burning became the game she played. 1st she went after kids trying to take a wrecking ball to family life with her named person bill (thankfully stopped by the crts), when that failed she started to turn our world class education system into an indoctrination factory that sold kids a lie and drove a wedge between parents and their children. Whilst simultaneously creating the rights of the child bill (stopped with a section 33 order) that amongst other things basically emancipated kids at 14. She then went all in gender ideology using it as a vehicle to get the power she wanted and silencing her detractors as evil "transphobic, homophobic and possibly racist bigots" (she actually tweeted that out).
There's so much more that could be said about that disaster of a woman and her government that rewarded failure with promotion (yes looking at you Usless Yousef) and has done so much harm to our people and country. But fortunately her house of cards came crashing down with a single photo of a male double rapist in pink skin tight leggings (thank you Isla Brison/Adam Graham).
Now though we're left with her sycophants and idiots who have nothing left, they cant say look how great we are, how well we've ruled over the past decade + instead all they have is a failed dream and wrecked country so they try the good old independence war cry but it won't work as people are angry up here change is coming and Swinney knows that after all his scheming to get in power hes going to be the nick leggings of the snp, they won't be back in power for a very long time (even with the dodgy pr voting system up here).
Optimistic you may think but the writing is on the wall and everyone including Swinney can see it

Salmond the man was an astute politician and an excellent strategist. But let’s not forget the history. He was wholly unpopular with the party in his first decade as leader, and only managed to increase the number of SNP MPs from 4 to 6. His success in increasing the profile came after Devolution and it is arguable that, this would have happened regardless of who was the leader. They were the de-facto opposition in the Scottish Parliament only because of Scotland’s history with Conservative Party and that was bound to increase their standing. They took power in Scotland at a time when the UK Labour government was fighting over who would be the new leader and had high unfavourable ratings. They were the only left wing alternative to Labour and picked up votes from people who had no other real alternative at the time. The results of that election have been questioned as they won by a small number of seats, and over 4% of the ballots were disqualified due to the newly introduced electronic counting system. These ballots disproportionately affected the traditional Labour heartlands in the Central Belt, who had become more disenfranchised due to a re-drawing of election boundaries prior to the election.

The SNP Government under Salmond sowed the seeds of the disaster it is today. Populist policies we can’t afford, expansion of the state sector, the ramping up of the “Westminster bad” rhetoric. By every metric the SNP decline has led to failures in Scotland. Health, Education, Poverty have all suffered under the SNP and this decline started with Salmond. In many ways Sturgeon had a poisoned chalice, trying to turn the tide against a series of policies which had not been delivered or successful. She lost half of the SNPs seats after her first 3 years as first minister and never really recovered from that. From there she became ever more populist. She was an excellent communicator, and during Covid this really boosted her popularity, but nothing could detract from the fact that the country was really performing little better than the rest of the U.K. Her only saving grace was that numbers showed we were “best” in the UK. That’s a hard sell when you are talking about the difference in A&E waiting times being 9 hours v 12 hours. If the SNP had focussed on finding solutions to problems instead of just blaming Westminster and gunning for Independence, we might be in a better position. Frankly, if they had done that, I’d be far more likely to vote Yes.

We have seen the cost of the divorce (Brexit). It isn’t pretty. Those who are suffering the most are low income, who were also most likely to have voted for it. This will be the same in Scexit. We have also seen the problems with starting a new Nation. The Scotland Act in 2016 gave more power to ScotGov to administer 6 existing social security benefits and deliver 5 new ones. It was 2021 before they rolled out the first of those being switched from the U.K. system to payments from ScotGov. The estimated one off cost of setting these up has more than doubled to £651m. SNP defended this increase by saying the costs were unknowable when they were calculated in 2017. This is despite them claiming that a £200m estimate to set up and independent Scotland was credible in 2014. The truth is, no-one knows how much it would cost, but it’s safe to say it will be more than we’ve spent on delivering these benefits, and will not happen in the 18 months SNP claim it will.

There is probably no right time for Scotland to separate, it will always be messy and people will suffer in the short to medium term. But there is definitely a wrong time. To do it when the Nation is already on its knees will mean generations of people will be in a much worse position. The problem is, it’s only when people are really facing hardship that the “unicorns for all” campaign promises will be successful.

stonkytonk11 · 01/08/2025 12:22

Like it or not…independence is normal. Not saying it’s preferable/better or anything but it is normal. So I think it’s unreasonable to ask for a Nationalist party to ‘drop’ driving for an independent country. That was your question.

MsJen · 01/08/2025 12:24

They’ll never drop it.

SaintNoMountainHighEnough · 01/08/2025 12:28

Was disappointing during the Scottish Independence Referendum that the other parts of the UK weren't asked if we wanted them to stay.

I wrote this only slightly with tongue in cheek.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 01/08/2025 12:28

I have to laugh at those in England that think Scottish independence happening won't affect them financially. It will be a long bigger and enormously expensive divorce.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 01/08/2025 12:28

*bitter

stonkytonk11 · 01/08/2025 12:30

@MsJenof course they’ll never drop it, they’re a nationalist party! It’s like asking the Greens to drop any of their environmental agenda!

Purplecatshopaholic · 01/08/2025 12:35

Half the country don’t want to drop it. About 62% of the country voted Remain but we were dragged out anyway. Every gain Reform makes only increases the Independence cause up here..