To be depressed about my financial situation compared to my neighbors

[greenwithenvy2]

My neighbor is about 59 years old and her husband is 63. She works for the local council as a HR coordinator and her husband, who is now retired, was a finance clerk for the local council.

They have a property portfolio worth around £2.4m (£1m mortgages) so approx £1.4m in property assets. They started their business in the early 90s, when they purchased their first property. They moved home, renting out their original house and repeated this again. With the increase in house prices they were able to remortgage their BTL and buy more property.

We are in our late 30s and are in a very privileged position - we earn a decent wage between us (£140k) and are able investment into our ISA each month but we will never able to have £1.4m in property investment.

I felt so bitter listening to her. They were able to provide gifts for their children to buy their houses and they have now set up companies so their children will inherit their wealth.

I get we are fortunate, but we'll never be able to do this for our children. They achieved this on fairly middling wages as well. I know there are a few other neighbors on our street who've managed this feat and now their kids are sitting pretty.

I felt disgusted at her and at myself for feeling this way.

You looked up your neighbours on companies house! That's bonkers op. 😂

@MuskIsACnt fair point

There won’t be the same gains but there will be gains none the less, property goes up faster than inflation

There seem to be a few threads on the theme of weatlh and property lately. My mouth has almost hit the floor a few times at the entitled whinging of people who by every standard of financial security ought to be having a comfortable life. I get by on £22k, my home is worth about £160K and to my utter horror I have found another leak in my roof so will be having to raid my quickly depleting savings. And guess what, I think I am lucky compared to many, my mortgage is paid off, my health is reasonable, my adult child is doing ok, I do not have to use a food bank, I can afford to go out once a month, it used to be more often but the cost of living has knocked that on the head! I have good friends who are really supporting me after a terrible trauma in my family. I love having the time to read now that I am retired, I love the peace of being able to choose how I structure my day. I am very lucky compared to many, maybe if the OP looked at the many who have fuck all compared to them they wouldn't feel so hard done to

They weren’t necessarily smart. It was all there for the taking and even ordinary people could take advantage in the 80’ and 90’s.

It was pure luck. I have older colleagues that took out 100% mortgages, 95% interest only mortgages etc. If you started a thread on MNs should I take out a 95% interest only mortgage what would the responses be?

@Panicpanicpanicpanik I don't think recent property prices eg flats bought post Brexit have kept up with inflation?

Yes exactly. I mean aside from the fact you’d be hard pressed to get an IO mortgage on a high ltv without a iron clad repayment vehicle, but your point is spot on

They have on an aggregate basis, anecdotally I got my house 5 years ago and it’s gone up 100k in value.

new build flat maybe not, new build in general due to the premium pricing bit of a tricky one.
but property prices soared from 2019

@Panicpanicpanicpanik things are different now so you wouldn't be able to do it. Most BTLs want at least 25% deposit.

Property in my part of London has definitely stagnated particularly flats and the bigger houses.

OP, Times are different now compared to what they were, even I can see that and I'm in a similar age group to your neighbours. However, I am also aware that some people do have the luck and fortitude to do well as well as put in the hard work needed.
But they are able to do this by lots of mortgages which means that they don't entirely own everything in their portfolio and are relying on other people to pay the mortgages for them. If a few of their tenants didn't pay their rent they are on the hook for paying it - if you don't have cash assets then like a house of cards the potential is there for the whole lot to come tumbling down. A million quid of mortgages isn't a walk in the park for many people and some properties are beginning to lose value as people will only pay what they are willing to pay for a property. Likewise some tenants simply cannot afford to pay the rents demanded so I think this too has the potential to drive down the rental market and eventually force landlords to drop their rents or sell the property. Lower rents for many would be an ideal dream I imagine.
But they know the risks and I reckon more than once since they began this enterprise they will have had the sleepless nights, stress and worry in one way or another that you yourself have said that you wouldn't want if you had such an enterprise yourself.

Why are you do obsessed you have been reviewing their accounts on companies house?

@greenwithenvy2 as loads of people say, you need to appreciate what you have. These people took risks and it paid off. I was very risk averse and although im sitting pretty with a mortgage free home, i think i also would have had a ton more had i invested. But i was scared and i didnt want the weight of tenants etc on me. Two friends scraped money together separately and both have two properties in London now, almost outright owned. They took risks and it paid off. But loads of stress along the way.

They don't want to pretend they deserved it. They don't want to be blamed for making the same decisions that anybody else would make if they were in the same circumstances. They were lucky to be young in a period of economic growth and career opportunity. What did you want them to do? Not take good jobs? Choose to put their savings into failing investment funds? What would you have done?

There's no reason you can't have a great net worth if you invest on your salary. You'll have investments and a paid off house. I understand some frustration but not the aiming it personally at your neighbor.

agreed the most common LTV for BTL is 75% although there are 80% LTV options out there but you can expect to pay a lot more due to the risk weighting.

London is a bit different because properties are already so expensive, the rate at which the property value goes up with be dampened because of market conditions, supply and demand, price being too high dampens demand. Landlords are also pulling out of those markets due the property prices, rates, icr. High fee options allow lower pay rates but as most capitalise the fee, there’s only so many times you can whack a 3% onto your loan etc. North would be the market, where properties are cheaper with a decent rental yield and they’d still appreciate

but outside of London property is a safer bet

You also have the complexities of years left on a leasehold and free hold flats being virtually unmortgageable further dampening flat prices

What did you want them to do?

Acknowledge that things whilst never easy were just a bit easier vs now...

Not sure I understand why, they've built wealth and you can too.

What do you save a month into your stocks and shares ISA?

Assuming by late 30's you're 38.
Assuming you have 50k already saved
Assuming you invest £1000 a month for the next 22 years into a S+S ISA with an average rate of return of 12% a year (easily achievable)

You'd have approx £1.75M by the time you're their age...

They've worked hard for their wealth and I expect have made sacrifices along the way, invest smart and you can have the same...

I am a boomer, I am going to do the decent thing and sell my home and go and live in a tent because my house is not worth much and there is nothing I can downsize to. Think I might donate the money to a poor hard done to Mums Netter, maybe I could hold a competition. "How much do you hate boomers, the person to spew the most vitriol wins £160K" I had it so easy and I feel so guilty! I must have imagined going hungry to feed my child, I must have imagined how cold we were as I saved up for two years to have central heating installed, I must have imagined one especially appallling winter when I had bare legs and leaking boots because I had no money for tights or to get my boots mened because of course everyone from my generation lived high on the hog, Please stop with the generalisation, it is offensive.

I think there are a few things you’re missing here.
There are also a great deal of younger people in the UK doing very well for themselves in a similar way. The difference, the same as this couple, is that they are people with their own businesses that the develop and build wealth through. Btl is one of those methods and it involves risk. And you have said very honestly that you would not want to do it.

I feel the same. I have close family members that are very well off from business and property ventures because they feel comfortable with that risk. This couple took their modest income and put it in to an investment. They haven’t got wealth just on the modest income.

Also I would argue that you should absolutely be able to help your children on to the property ladder on a £140k income! A lot of people do it on a lot less. That could be via savings from your income which is substantial. Post 18 you could be charging them rent and saving it and jointly helping them save into Lisa’s and getting tax relief. Or if needs be, considering releasing some equity in years to come which again should be more than doable on £140k.

Who was it told you life had to be fair?

It isn’t so get over it and try and use your neighbours as an inspiration rather than getting eaten up with jealousy!

There's not reason you can't help your kids when they're older. You sound very fatalistic; all or nothing. You might not be able to help to to the same extent, but you'll be able to help.

Why won’t you be able to give this to your children? We’re on a lower income to you but still high, £120k, and are a similar age mid-late 30s. We have around £200k equity in our house so far and have savings accounts set up for house deposits for our DCs. It’s one of our priorities. On your income you should be able to set you DCs up too.

I agree. You don’t sound very kind or happy.

At your household current wage over £100,000 you could easily live off one wage, save or invest the rest. In a decade or so you’ll be catching your neighbours up. I don’t see where your jealousy has come from. You sure you’re not mixing up jealousy with greed?

edited: spellings