To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

You are not representative of most high earners. Studies have proven most high earners are happy with their contribution and very high earners would be happy to pay more.

I am in this bucket of high earner and I am proud of the country we live in in the main and would never move.

Your assessment of worth by value is sad and I feel sorry for you and your family. Have you not got a community that you are integrated into? Do you not see the myriad of situations and life’s of the people around you?

You don’t represent me or most of the people I know.

Do what’s right for you OP. Everyone is out for themselves and trying to look after their own, so you should do so yourself.

You won't get much support on leftie Mumsnet I'm afraid OP. It really does seem that it doesn't pay to work hard in this country, the system is too easy to manipulate and disadvantaged people are often 'better off on benefits' than in the jobs that they can do. I see it with my own eyes on a daily basis. People claiming sickness benefits when they're not sick, carers allowance when they don't care for the person (who also isn't sick), single parent benefits (when they're not a single parent), PIP whilst also earning a decent amount, I could go on... not sustainable at all.

Can you cite your sources and provide links for the stats you have quoted. .

Yeah so happy that they’re leaving in their hundred of thousands.

Let’s not forget that 1/4 new cars are not paid for by the taxpayer for those on disability benefits. You can get a new car now for having ADHD or alcoholism.

It is beyond insane.

I have always been a net contributor. I don't want to go into specifics as it might introduce an element that might be something people use to attack me rather than focus on the issue.

We once received the money you get for a child (can't recall what it is called) and under David Cameron was asked to pay all of it back if you income was above a certain amount. The added kick was that we had to do a self-assessment to be able to return the money to HMRC and from that time onwards, we have been asked to do self-assessments. A real pain but I digress.

I wholeheartedly believe in a welfare state. What I don't believe is right is when 52% of adults and growing are net-reliant on the state and the diminishing net-contributors are expected to pay more and more. Woe be them if they say it's too much for them now and the burden is breaking their backs. We are expected to shut up whilst more burden is piled on us. Salaries are barely keeping up with inflation. Public services are not even that great. So what is in it for us? We're suppose to shut our mouths in case one day we are in a car crash?

You might want to stop reading the Daily Mail. I can find no statistics to back up what you’re saying. Given that there are 14 million children in this country, how many of them are you expecting to be ‘net contributors’?

This has really brightened my day 😂

Off you pop then, enjoy!

Sadly, many other large western countries are similar - Canada, NZ, Australia for example.

of course it doesn't, you're over contributing given that you only get a 1/3rd discount!

As pp have alluded to, these are complex problems and there are no simple answers- and very few countries where similar problems (or worse ones) don’t exist. I think much depends on your world view and the sort of society you want to live in, in terms of where you might look to go. OP has mentioned the USA, which to me is riddled with far worse problems than ours, but if it ticks her boxes and she’s wealthy enough to be insulated from those problems, more power to her elbow.

The other big consideration is climate change. Not many countries are immune to that, and those issues are likely to cause even worse problems for most people in the world. Do you move somewhere that’s regularly going to experience 45 degrees of heat every summer? Somewhere susceptible to increasing flood risks? Somewhere that doesn’t have these issues and has a large number of people trying to immigrate there? It’s really a case of pick your problem, I think.

OP given that the main driver of people being 'net reliant' is pensioners, what are you suggesting?
Euthanasia?

Those pesky old people taking your hard earned money, how dare they!

Off you pop to Israel, good luck!

Having worked in Canada and NZ - agree. The tax burden is Canada is no lower OP, and Canadians really REALLY don’t like people who aren’t team players/don’t want to pay their way. Tall Poppy syndrome is a big thing there, far more so than here.

NZ is lovely but not cheap or low tax either, and again not really a place to go if you want to get rich. Many young NZers move to Australia for financial reasons.

A lot of Europe has cheaper more reliable train travel and public transport, cycling is accepted, encouraged.
Science development is invested in - there are many problems that need innovation heading humanities way - humanity needs solutions
There is a way of life that is more neighbourly - we are at the stage in the uk some people expect silence in their tiny surrounded gardens like they live in some sprawling country estate.
There is snobbery, selfishness, a breakdown in people wanting to be decent to each other.

There are nicer places especially if you’re wealthy - money helps it does.

We feel we fit in in the UK less since Brexit, we have dual passports and some money, so we are going to look to try and find somewhere we feel we fit in more, probably Europe.

In the meantime we are here, net contributors, raising fairly decent young men, it’s not like we are going to abandon all hope and become pricks in the process, but we just feel that a lot of the positive things about the UK have been eroded since Brexit vote and the country as a whole wants to move further along the right wing spectrum, not even just politically and financially but socially as well. And that is not us. But if the country decides to do that it will then be for us to move.

It's internet algorithms. People go down rabbit holes and only ever see or seek out articles which confirm their views. I'm not immune, just that mine are a bit more positive.

@Diydanny
Nobody “gets” what you refer to as a “disability car” for nothing.
NOBODY.
If you mean that some people use the mobility component of their PIP or DLA to lease a car that is ultimately returned to the company who lease the car would it be better for the economy if they didn’t lease a car?
Same amount of benefits go to people who do not lease or purchase an adapted car or lease a car from the charity Motability and they also pay a not insignificant down payment to the owner of the car.
Is the objection that disabled people are allowed to have a tiny amount of ability to travel independently or that they receive benefits to enable them to leave their houses at all?

Indeed.

I get free prescriptions because I take thyroxin (random prescription loophole 🤔)...I wonder if that gets included in the stats for supported by the govt.

I don't recognise the UK so many describe on here. Where I am there are some not working who probably could, but most people are living happy, valuable, safe lives.

All of them! Up the chimney with them! 🤣

I apologise if you felt my reply to your original post was insulting to you and your beliefs. Your first post came across to me as smug and congratulatory that you are such a big net contributor. I must have misunderstood what you were trying to get across.

Thanks for sticking around in the UK and paying your taxes here. I am SO grateful to you as I am sure SO many others are too.

What an utterly ridiculous and tasteless comment.

😂 the delusion is real.

Labour have made things significantly worse in that year.

Labour gave huge hand outs to very well paid state workers as soon as it came in. Thus increasing the pension liability. They will probably continue to give into the unions for the next 4 years.

Labour taxed education thus increasing the number of kids that now have to be educated and paid for by the state, that before were paid for by their parents twice over.

Labour taxed farmers because of "Jeremy clarkson" which will mean farms will go out of business. They tax businesses so businesses cannot be passed on tax free and if the IHT liability cannot be paid those businesses may close and staff be made redundant and reliant on the State.

Labour increased Employers NI which is a tax on the providers of work. This is leading to an increase in unemployment and thus more people reliant on the State.

Labour immediately cancelled Rwanda without an alternative plan. There has as a result been an increase in boat crossings of people who have not contributed to the UK and will be reliant on the State.

Labour gave away Chagos to a random country and agreed that the taxpayer should also pay billions to that random country for no obvious reason.

Labour have achieved a lot in that year in the way of pressure on the taxpayer. I can't believe I'm saying this but Reform can't do worse than Labour and actually Labour are worse than the Conservatives.

Someone earning £50k with two school age children may not be a net contributor, even though they aren't claiming anything, but normally this will change as their kids grow up and leave education and they get promoted and earn more, so at a certain point they will become a net contributor, paying back what they took out.

If OP and her DH are in the top 1% of earners, they must be able to afford a very affluent lifestyle, cushioned and protected from the realities of life that people on low incomes experience.

If she hates it so much here, there is nothing stopping her and her husband from leaving the UK. She would probably love the ex-pat lifestyle in a tax haven like the UAE/Dubai.