To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

Do you have dual passports OP?

Over 50 when moving, especially if you want to move to a “better” country than the UK, can you speak another language?

Probably a good idea to look at a work sponsored move, quite likely close to top 1% earnings your company has intentional offices.

Most places don’t welcome 50 year olds with open arms and it’s a long road anywhere for residency with al the benefits that creates so I would look at your options now.

Just being a high earner isn’t enough, if you have savings (in the 100s of thousands you can buy golden visas the USA ones are 5 million each - so depends how rich you are) for example.

Yes we are looking but might have to settle for getting an easy to maintain apartment here and traveling, doing work placements abroad for a year or two.

I would start looking now, see what work would sponsor you to do.

I am not making up the figures. These are from the Office of National Statistics. A separate study by the Adam Smith Institute puts the figure at 52.1%.

This is the sad reality of things. What ever the situation of the 52% plus people (approx 35 million people) the fact is that they are net reliant on the State - taking out more than they are giving. Everyone who is net reliant on the State can justify why it should be so in their case but the point is that how can the country progress when more of its adults are net recipients rather than net contributors? Is this the characteristic of a developed Western economy? Is this what progress looks like?

I don't know yet. We think the US but it has it's own problems. I hate to jump ship but I just feel exhausted when I look into the future here. I feel not enthusiasm. For me personally, it just isn't worth it.

This country is in decline. It doesn't produce or make anything. The cost of living is very high. Housing is expensive - I am not surprised people are reliant on the state.

@Nina1013 if you were in a car crash today and your whole family needed emergency, ITU care and rehabilitation the scales you so admiringly pointed out as net contributors would soon shift to not being. Not many private trauma A&E ITU beds in the UK. You live and work in the UK. We all pay tax in proportion to our wages. We all have a reliance on each other one way or another. You can’t definitely state that you will live in a bubble of sanctimonious we pay far more than we take out forever. Nobody can.

Why the sarcastic tone? OP isn’t “flouncing” anywhere. She is worried.

My company is global and is excellent at relocating people who want to. So I would be fortunate in that respect. I don't want to. I feel I have to, if that makes sense.

You have been saying this on here for a long time now. Will you actually do it do you think?

Where are you thinking of OP? As I said above we have tried a few places and come back here. I am genuinely interested where would be better and why that place? Is it maybe that nowhere is what it used to be?

Because these threads come up every five minutes, expressed melodramatically, generally from people with no intention of leaving, who throw around the names of potential destinations they have obviously given no thought to.

As a my who gets cares allowance and a nearly adult child that gets pip I can see both sides.
My child deserves support but my dh is a high earner and pays a crazy month of tax. I can only get carers allowance if I work very part time so my earning potential is low. We both rely on his money tbh.

My dd gets pip so she feels independent and she uses it for her therapy and I use the carers allowance on short courses in education for her as she can't manage a yearly course right now. As she is older these are not funded.

We don't get value for dh taxes.

Every diagnosis she has had has been private. Every drug she trailed has been private.

Get endometriosis treatment and surgery has been private.

The roads are shit. Rubbish everywhere No police presence. Crime shoplifting. Everything is getting very expensive. Education failed her. No sen support. Ehcp rejected twice. We are now appealing.

So I get it op.

There must be so much waste out there it's not right!

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Do you still get a government pension if you move abroad? Genuine question, I’m early thirties.

You're laying the blame on the wrong people OP. It's not about getting blood form the stones that are low income earners, it's about big companies, particularly those who cause social harms (e.g. social media, alcohol, tobacco, fast food) actually paying their fair share of tax. If they did, your enormous salary might go down a bit, but your standard of living and life expectancy would go up. Read 'The Spirit Level'.

@Taxed have you always been a net contributor? Things often change throughout people’s life stages. When you have children it is unlikely that you will be but before and after there is a higher chance.

I am currently a net contributor but if I need care in the future this will most likely change. I am nowhere near the top 1% but need very little from the system as I have no children, private medical cover and am not in receipt of any benefits.

Is this the characteristic of a developed Western economy?

It is, it’s a combination of longer lives and lower birth rates. The reason that immigrant over-50s are unwelcome in most countries is because they generally start to get expensive after that age. People have greater health needs, they want to retire (or cannot continue to work), they can’t do jobs which are physically demanding. They can’t sustain their financial contribution to the economy and become net takers. When the welfare state was invented there were about 5 working-age adults to every retiree. We’re much closer now to 1:1 (it’s something like 2.3:1). Other countries in Europe are similar; it’s worse in places like Japan and South Korea.

These are complex problems and simplistic answers are not going to solve them.

You are not wrong OP.

But on MN, it’s the done thing to advocate for doing as little as possible and asking for as much as possible in return.

This country is now officially one of handout takers. There is an entrenched ‘crabs in a buckets’ mentality where anyone who is doing better than you must be pulled down. Asking for endless handouts is just a way of life. Not only is the proportion of net contributors now less than half, the net contributors and higher and upper rate tax payers are leaving while the number of people on benefits is increasing at lightning speed and we are bringing in immigrants who are also net takers. A complete recipe for disaster.

Result: the country borrows over £20b a month just to mostly pay debt interest. It’s madness. £20b a month to pay interest on debt that we already owe, which we continually spend on handouts and lagesse for those who think that they can live for free and other people will find it forever.

Well guess what? The bond markets are teaching the handout takers a lesson. The interest rates on this debt are higher than any other so called developed country (not sure we can even call ourselves a developed country). This country pays higher interest rates than Greece. The bond markets simply don’t trust this country to get out of this hole and curb the freebies and living beyond its means.

Next stop - the IMF. Then the handout takers will rally fund out what a squeeze looks like.

@Taxed nobody is stopping you. Move abroad. We are. Not because we think the grass is greener just because we have always moved around. I don’t understand people like you who have a choice to move abroad but don’t. As I said you don’t come across as the type of person who will ever move abroad.

Where is this special 'abroad' place without problems?

Make a list of your 'must haves', make a list of countries then cross off all the ones which don't make the cut.

I suspect you won't be left with a very long list.

Honestly get out while you can. The crabs in this bucket will try everything they can to pull down.

Well having to rely on the state is a bit shit, because the state at best gives you a shit watered down service at best most of the time. It's not something to aspire to or rely on if you want a half decent life.

Sometimes I wish we had a gone the council waiting list for a house snd not bought. Then I see someone's horse walk into their semi front door and I think fuck living next door to that.

Most people want control or where they live, who live next door too. Just look at the ASBO threads on here. I'm not saying it's common but if your unlucky to have crappy neighbours your a lot more stuck. Also the horse owner upsets everyone on their street and most of our village at certain points of the year.

I firmly believe everything stems from housing costs. If they can get a grip on that, it will turn around. If not it will get worse. Generation rent heading into retirement is going to be a mess. With the Tory government refusing to do anything, meanwhile McCarthy stone seeing it and ramping up building buy to lets across the country. Imagine the millions in housing benefit they will receive if this isn’t resolved.

The cheap labour or the non labour? How many of us know of people who have never worked and have no intention of working. Claiming ‘mental health issues’ to get access to DLA, disability car etc
I know I’ll get a bashing but I don’t care. I’m so fed up with it. My son, in his 40’s, is actively looking to move abroad.

You’ve totally lost me.
You were querying what she meant with the stats and I answered that.
I am very well aware of the value of the NHS etc and happy with what we contribute. I thought you were genuinely questioning the statistic/thought she was saying more than half of the population are on benefits, so I explained what I thought she meant.

That being said, people in positions such as me and my family, would be SO much better off financially with lower taxes a US style health system - including if we had a major car crash. However, if we had that, there would be people in the UK who couldn’t access lifesaving medication such as insulin etc due to not having medical insurance. So before you assume all high earners/high contributors don’t care about that, consider what you’re saying. I believe in the NHS and am happy to contribute to it.

We would be better off living elsewhere. We don’t because I believe in the system we have. However, if it becomes any more skewed towards the left and socialism, people like my family will start to consider moving - and have the skills and wealth to be able to do so. That’s when things would start to really fall apart, because the system relies on the net contributors - the majority of whom don’t try to cheat the system and pay exactly what they’re supposed to in terms of tax etc. If things become too skewed, they’ll start to move away and take their contributions with them. It would be very arrogant of anyone to claim this would be ‘good riddance’ etc etc because it would not.

I read your post with interest, but these statistics need some serious unpacking. The claim that "52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State" paints a misleading picture of our society.

When we say people are "reliant on the state" or "net recipients," we're lumping together vastly different situations. This includes pensioners who've paid into the system their entire working lives and are now receiving their state pension, which isn't a handout but something they've contributed towards for decades. It includes families receiving child benefit, which is a form of universal support for working parents who pay taxes. It includes people working full-time on modest incomes who receive some tax credits to supplement their wages.

None of these scenarios represents people simply taking without contributing. They describe how our social contract works across a lifetime.

I'm a higher earner too, and yes, our tax burden can feel heavy. But I don't see successful people being "hated"; instead, I see a recognition that those who've done well should contribute proportionally to maintain the society that enabled that success.

The UK certainly faces challenges, but portraying half the population as dependent drains misses the reality of how our economy functions. Most people contribute in different ways throughout their lives, sometimes as net contributors, sometimes as net recipients, depending on their life stage.

Before making life-changing decisions based on these statistics, I suggest examining them more closely to understand what they actually represent.