To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

There are people abusing the system for their benefit, sure, this is the case for any country. There are also well off people who show zero empathy for others before twisting that knife deeper into their back.
Walk a mile in people’s shoes before judging OP. Your superiority may well end abruptly one day due to mental or physical illness out of your control and if it does I hope you get the help you need, wherever you go.
Good luck convincing your child to do what you want- sometimes that does not end well.

The point OP is making is that now the majority of the population is in receipt of benefits, we are stuck in a doom loop. You have cited yourself as a special case. Unfortunately, when everyone is special, no one is special.

It’s true that it would be nice if something like the winter fuel allowance being made means tested hadn’t been greeted by such howling screams from the anti-Labour media. It was a really obvious reduction that needed to be made, I’d wish they’d stuck to their guns. But there are a lot of forces in this country that are absolutely determined to prevent any political success, however tiny, that could be attributed to a Labour government.

I’m sorry you feel ripped off. I find it best to base my calculations on my take home pay. I just assume that if taxes fell, so would wages and I wouldn’t be any better off.

Until you are. We are all a car crash away from being special!

But in practical terms, when the country goes bust because of the millions of special cases then no ons benefits. We've killed the golden goose.

Some people do have genuine illnesses and disabilities.....sad and desperately inconvenient for budgeting, but true

Not special , just saying that no-one knows when their circumstances could change and you need to get some additional help .

OP nobody is keeping you in this country but moving abroad isn’t easy. I predict you will not move abroad and just continue to moan.

I’ve lived in many different countries and unless you are very wealthy you can’t shield yourself from society being a beast that needs to be held together for everyone’s sake.

Like other posters have said you earn you pay tax.

This does not change the fact that a car crash could put you in your special category today. The country going bust in x amount of years won’t be your immediate concern.

Move to pastures new. We are. But every Country has a society it has to support and nurture or anarchy will win.

I don't think the OP is criticising people for claiming benefits per se. We are all out for ourselves these days after all so why shouldn't she be too. Perfectly reasonable to not want to work extremely hard and get a large proportion of your income taken off you to pay for the pay rises of already very highly paid state workers like train drivers or people who have never contributed in any way to this country. She just needs to calculate what is best for her. As we all do these days now the social contract and social cohesion is breaking down so significantly. It's really really sad.

For me the issue thst really winds me up.is reliance on state money to top up wages. How is it right that giving money aka tax payers money is used to supplement wages ? The companies paying these wages, that are not enough to.live on, are making millions in profits. I also have an issue with people choosing part time work and the tax payer supplementing their income. You often hear on here, LTB snd claim UC. All this money has your be paid for- it's not a bottomless pot. I just left teaching 4 yesrs early after 31 years- had enough. I'll be supplementing my pension with a part time job.

If you really want to see people who are potentially a drain on resources go and visit the dementia section of a nursing or care home - what a sad and depressing existence for people who were once capable and competent adults, making their own contribution to society through work and bringing up families. But are they a drain on state resources? Probably not in many cases as many will be self-funding, spending their pensions, savings and the money from selling their home on their care.
OP's post is overly simplistic and displays a lack of humanity. The problems the UK faces are not unique to the UK.

I don't think many people object to that (although they need to tighten up the rules on assessing mental disabilities that prevent people from working). The biggest bill is the public sector pensions liability.

The number of pensioners is growing in every developed country so the number of people on benefits is growing. It’s the result of better healthcare, nutrition etc. The stats you quote do not illustrate how many are unemployed but of employment age. The stats also include the key public sector workers who are low paid so get top up benefits but who we could not survive without.

This country is in decline mainly thanks to Brexit and years of relying on the financial sector and not investing in other sectors leaving London to thrive and elsewhere to struggle.

Having said that I have lived in a few countries over the last 20 years and ended up back here as it still has a lot to recommend it when you experience whether the grass really is greener elsewhere. I am interested which countries you think would be better for you. The best I found was Canada but the actual experience of life there was less enjoyable for us so we returned.

Most of the top up benefits go to landlords. I can remember the start of buy-to-lets and building a property portfolio was seen as something to aspire to. The air B&B stuation across Europe has finally been recognised as damaging. Residential buyers can't compete with the cash offers of landlords/builders. Couple that with stagnant/low wages and we need a good welfare budget to maintain the living standards that the UK should have. That's without pensioners, the ill and disabled. I'm not a fan but Jeremy Corbyn did have some good solutions, which would have also tackled illegal workers.

Source the figures OP.

I fit into neither of your two categories

For me it is the cash value of benefits that can be exploited.

Benefits should have no cash value only services or goods value eliminating the benefit cheats and also criminals from exploiting and transporting cash around the world or hoarding cash as savings.

Who needs cash now? As soon as we go to a cashless system and AI can audit with a click of a button how we all spend our money I believe benefit fraud and criminality will reduce.

Net contributors I assume is what she means.

For example, even someone earning 50k with 2 school age children will not be a net contributor despite not claiming or being eligible for any benefits. Each child educated in the state system is £8k a year. £16k just on educating their children. That’s before seeing a GP, going to A&E, etc. On a £50k salary, you aren’t paying £16k in tax. Therefore you’re not a net contributor. It’s not just about whether you’re on benefits, it’s how much you put in vs how much you take out.

We pay in the six figures for tax. We privately educate our kids, and pay for the majority of healthcare needs privately (only exception would be trauma/A&E/GP once in a blue moon). We don’t get child benefit. So we put in far more than we take out.

I believe this is the point she’s making.

The only people being penalised for working hard are people who are earning minimum wage or barely above, or are working in roles that make no money (unpaid carer, homemakers), or people whose work in life is to get through the day due to disability and illness without snapping.

I can almost guarantee that the majority of these above people are working much harder than "ambitious high earners". You guys are damn lazy compared to your average disabled person on benefits, and their carers. You have it easy, you're the ones getting money for what is, relatively, nothing.

Maybe the OP would like to keep a bit more of her income to save up in case shit happens. Everyone walks in their own shoes through life and for her she may be able to not rely on the state. That's presumably the aim of all of us, if we are able.

The poster I was replying to sounds like they don't believe in illnesses. I agree re the pensions.

Are you, aye🙄

I need an understanding of the calculations before I can observe really. Otherwise it’s just a number with no context.

There’s lies, damned lies, and statistics! Can we have a source and a breakdown of the 52% claim please.

I heard a programme recently discussing our birth rate. We’re heading towards one working-age adult per retiree, which is an unsustainable situation. By far the largest portion of the benefits spend is on pensions. And those are triple-lock protected, by popular demand. What can be changed? (obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/welfare-spending-pensioner-benefits/)

And the tax gap costs the Treasury more than misuse of working age benefits. What can be done there?
(fullfact.org/online/benefit-fraud-vs-tax-evasion/)

The largest benefit is the state pension- which is already tiny compared to most of Europe.