To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

62.9% of UK population is working age, then within that group are working parents and the working poor. Only 3.4% of WA claim unemployment benefits.

Then where will you go?

I'm a big fan of emigrating for a bit in your 20s but unless you have a very specific and in demand set of skills most counties do not want the over 30-35s, and will tax you just as much

How do other counties compare in these two figures? And how do they achieve this?
Genuinely wondering if any are better when you weigh up things like having to pay for health care. Eg. USA
Or having no safety net - so people just die on the streets.

What countries have a better tax regime for the uber rich that UK?

There are roughly 37 million people that are of working age in the UK. That's why the percentage of those with state support seems so high (children's free prescriptions/student council tax breaks etc). It doesn't mean we're a nation of scroungers. It means we have lots of young people and lots of elderly people.

Is the OP suggesting we widen the working age range and bring back child labour?

Statistics can be used to prove many things, but this post feels like a dog whistle.

So where are you going to go?

USA? Happy to see you enjoy the Trump lifestyle but you’ll pay a fortune for healthcare in premiums and co-pays that you don’t pay here.
Canada? They pay higher tax and it’s much colder.
Australia? Living round the edge of a scalding desert with men thinking women should be grateful.
South Africa? Loads of white people trying to leave, but I’m sure it will be fine for you.
Dubai? Really hot, nothing to do.
Europe? Great if you speak the language but much higher taxes.

People generally don’t leave the UK for long. We have terrific weather, free healthcare though you may have to wait, tolerance of different cultures, fantastic arts in terms of theatre, music, literary and music festivals, great science and engineering companies and a flourishing sarcastic sense of humour.

If you leave, you’ll be back. And if you’re not back, we’re grateful you’re not inflicting your presence on those of us who believe in this country and its people.

@Taxed Another way of looking at the country is that it is pure mismanagement which has brought it to the state it is in. Terrible issues around education, literacy, maths competence for decades. Terrible culture of allowing kids to bring themselves up unsupervised for decades in many social groups in the UK. Terrible government policies, involving high policing in some respects but bringing with it no safety or security as other areas are not policed or well managed at all. All these things could be turned around with competent attention and it is people like you who could do this. Many if not most places are facing similar difficulties so if you moved you would probably find yourself similarly frustrated. Sorry to sound bleak! Bleak but at the same time positive about what could be done

So to prevent future elderly people from losing a pension, you would have all the pensioners within the 52% currently go back to work or...? What exactly do you want to do? Have you got jobs people can go to? Would you rather euthanise them for the greater good?

Surely the real issue here is why half of all people need ‘state handouts’.
pensioners notwithstanding, it is utterly ridiculous that people in full time employment need universal credit or state help with childcare just in order to survive.
The lack of ability to get by because you do a job that is paid so badly you can barely make ends meet is atrocious.
Do you think that because people aren't bankers/lawyers/doctors/entrepreneurs/big business employees that they work less hard?
Do you understand that if everyone could/chose to do the type of jobs that would make them ‘rich’ society would completely break down because there would be noone collecting bins/mending roads/looking after nursery age children/cleaning work spaces and peoples homes/working in pubs or restaurants or cafes where richer people like to eat…the list goes on.
I dont think you work any harder than a single parent (or even two lower paid parents) with two jobs and working a 50/60 hour week whilst also trying to parent well and STILL needing help from universal credit in order to just scrape by.
The true issue is the disparity in wage that keeps some people at the bottom in jobs not valued by society (though patently absolutely essential to the ability for the richer ones to function in it) whilst others can have a lovely life whist sitting and congratulating themselves because they are clearly superior in high paid jobs.
its disgusting, really, the way our society ‘functions’

It's inevitable with an ageing population that we have a higher % of people reliant on the state. What do those moaning suggest we do with pensioners?

If you can leave then get out of here before the collapse. Sadly most people in Britain are poor or skint and don't have the options to just up and leave. Brexit and language barriers make it tougher as well.

The rot set in with Blair and 30 years of disastrous policies.

What is the obsession with being a net contributor?

Many people receiving benefits are in work. The simple fact is that wages are too low, rents are too high, and the government subsidises the wealthy businesses and property owners that pay the low wages and charge high rents.

In expensive areas ,the landlords are charging a lot more ,and the benefits system is making up the difference.
I read something somewhere about , basically the benefits are being paid to the rich landlords ,so it suits the government to keep house prices high .
If benefits on housing were massively capped,it would bring down the costs of rent .
But only the wealthy are landlords,like most of parliament,so it's a free handout to the rich .
I don't know if I've explained myself very well.but it sounded much better when I read it ,to when I've tried to explain it

Well you are a high earner OP because your company can afford to pay you lots of money as it is profitable. I’m assuming that lots of its profit is made from other employees on less generous salaries that may even have to depend on the state to help with their living expenses. In theory, the company could pay all its employees enough to not be state reliant, earn less profit but your salary may also decrease in this instance. You can moan all you like about the tax you have to pay but the state-reliant people you begrudge being supported are probably also the people that effectively allow you to be paid what you are.

Because then she'd be a hypocrite, included in the 52%

An utterly naive post.

As a non-resident, you simply need to comply with the SRT, meaning you are permitted 90 days in the UK within any given tax year. I know because I did it for six years, and believe me, 90 days in sufficient….

One can enjoy the summer in the UK, and then get the hell out.

A huge proportion of people have to be topped up by the government because they don't earn enough to live on. It's the employers who need to pay living wages. I have a friend who earns a huge salary as manager of a company that makes things for the government. So in a sense people like him are reliant on the government too. They need to do an audit on the money that goes out. It's not just about benefits.

The rot set in with Blair and 30 years of disastrous policies.

wage stagnation, selling off council housing, privatisation started under thatcher.

So a free car then.

Could’ve said that without the word salad.

Bon voyage, OP. Good luck in Israel or wherever. Do write back to let us know how you’re getting on.

I find myself frustrated at your posts OP. You are more than comfortably off, almost in the 1% yet you are “tired and sad”.

I earn fairly good money. I significantly more than my friend who is a nurse manager. But her job contributes to society in a way that mine never will.

The guy stacking shelves in Tesco probably does more for society on a day to day basis than someone paid £100k working as a consultant for one of the jazzy firms.

Yes, the level of benefits needs to be looked at asap. But your post is completely OTT.

Benefits on housing ARE capped. In my area they use Local Housing Allowance, a figure per size of house. At the moment the LHA is much lower - the average rent for a 2 bed private rental is £1100 but the LHA is £944.

It was already working as a deterrent as people were diverting to Ireland.

I think the disincentives to work and earn (more) are present at every level.

I earn 24k. My husband also works so that is not the only wage coming into my house.

Our household would benefit from us bringing home a little more but myself and my husband work at different times around our younger son who has special needs.

The time I could look at getting more work is during the school day 2 days each week. But wraparound care is patchy and when available 2 hours after school care is equivalent to 2 hours of minimum wage so after paying my deductions I would be paying to work for those hours.

I am left with 9:30-2:30 so a 5 hour shift. If I could find something covering those hours at minimum wage (12.21) I would earn £61.05 before deductions. After tax, national insurance and student loan (having already used my tax free allowance in my main job) I'd probably be left with £40.

So far I haven't felt that earning £40 for a day does not balance out the extra stress of losing my housework and downtime and knowing I will have to let my employer down if my son is sick.

What I am getting at is I don't think people consider if someone already earning a low wage, let's say £12.50 does an hours overtime after tax, national insurance and student loan repayments they could be left with £7.50 for an hour.

Someone earning £100 an hour even with a deduction rate of 80% would still be taking home £20. And many people earn much more than £100 an hour of course.

Many people are doing the "is it worth it" calculation and figuring that long hours and overtime are not worth it and that's before you factor in people that get universal credit to top up their wage (reducing the incentive to work more further) or people that lose their child benefit/personal allowance or free childcare hours by working more.

Where thresholds exist whether that is hitting the personal allowance limit for tax or hitting 100k and losing the personal allowance people close to the threshold will change their behaviour to stay below them. I gather people with little kids can find it not worth having a pay rise or even harmful to have one between 100k - 120k as they lose more than they gain. A lot of people would rather work a 4 day week and keep the personal allowance and free childcare. I would guess most people earning 100k are pretty savvy and won't be busy fools.

There is a difference between being a net contributor and relying on the state. To be a net contributor you need to be paying £17,000 a year per dependent. When I was earning less I didn’t pay that much in taxes but didn’t get any benefits whereas @Taxed is suggesting you are one or the other from the OP.

The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues: a higher share than at any time in past twenty years. In other words, three in every ten pounds that the government receives in income tax is paid by just over 300,000 individuals.

And the Lefties are simply too stupid to see this. Utter imbeciles.

Let them own it.

While importing millions of people every year primarily to keep wages low and rents high.