To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

The Laffer Curve has been discredited by all serious economists. It is referred to as the Laugher Curve by undergraduates

Let us know when you find a Utopia to move to, OP. Can't believe anyone would move country for such a reason. If you were genuinely upset about economic decline in the UK, surely you would stay and campaign for a reformed tax system. We are a democracy, other political parties exist and things will change. Do you have no love for your homeland?

The only place with money to burn these days is Dubai and the UAE. I'm not a fan but that's the place to go perhaps if you don't mind a bit or risk and want to earn a lot of money quickly.

I'd try my luck elsewhere before then in Europe but I agree, the west is in decline.

Undergraduates are always notoriously right wing.

Say what you like about the Laffer Curve.

The data in my post doesn't lie.

We're in a hole. Where are you going to get the money from to pay for the country's needs?

Yeh I bet. Until they get higher taxes as they age.

😂

Yes so just to take the OP’s example of the US - yes she may pay less tax, but poverty is deeper and wider spread and you have to be seriously wealthy to be completely insulated from that. Private jet wealthy.

Take San Francisco, an economic hub and home to some of the wealthiest people in the US. But there are actual shanty towns that take up whole areas of town, and extremely mentally unstable people wander the streets to a degree not seen anywhere in the UK. That’s got to affect your quality of life even as a high earner.

I find it hard to believe you are such a successful, high earner yet you can’t understand what the report from the ASI is actually measuring. They’ve included everyone who works for in the public sector and HE institutes (and HE students). Who else are you suggesting pays for teachers, doctors, emergency services,the civil service, etc if not the government? The 52% statistic includes those people, many of whom will be high earners, without any calculation of their net contribution, simply because their job relies upon the government to pay them. It’s completely misleading.

I don’t believe “The West is in decline” at all. Most people have considerably better standards of living than their parents generation. It’s just that people ignore the obvious signs of improvement and focus on the negative because that’s what sells papers.

All of that inculdes pension, higher education, etc too though. Leave if you want, I'm not sure whether you intended this to be a "Oh OP please don't go" type post.

Quite. I had a friend who was president of the Socialist Worker Society at Uni, he didn't see the irony when he got a job in corporate tax when he graduated. .

The middle class is being eroded everywhere.

Wait until AI kicks in.

We're back to surfdom, all of us, except the 0.001%

Being a millionaire now is just being middle class, living in a quiet suburb, minding your own business.

That's what London has been for quite some time. You own a house, you earn 100k plus, but you're definitely not 'rich'. You have a 'middle class' life. You own assets over one million but one million these days is peanuts.

Money is being devalued faster than you can earn it or save it. It's a transfer or wealth to the rich.

I'm a 1% but we need a revolution. What is going on is not fair. We will leave because UK offers no hope. Which is sad. We need something/someone truly radical.

You need to read about 9-9-6 and China then. And see what's going on there. Like really really read about it. The west is most definitely in decline.

The (wishful consequences of) the Lagfer Curve have long been discredited by serious economists, even within the undergraduate curriculum. Following its principles did Ronald Reagan no good. That came later.

Many agree that the raise in NI was a mistake. However, the article you link gives no serious data about people leaving the country.

@vodkaredbullgirl nailed it: most people have nowhere more compelling to go. Unless you have family ties somewhere else or are experiencing serious prejudice here, it’s mostly hot air. A few will always have good reasons to leave.

Even James Dyson is back.

Tbf if the pp is in that world (lecturing maybe) I can see why together higher taxes impacting behaviour is still a funny thing. Don’t get tax policy from that kind of thinking.

OP I'm sorry you're getting such a rough time (kind of proves the point of your post though...).

Lots of people saying the grass isn't always greener and everywhere has it's issues. That's true. I moved to Australia from the UK 5 years ago. London was wearing us down. House prices are through the roof, groceries and utilities are expensive, everyone has their gripes. But it's clean, it's safe and I can get a GP appointment same day (not free, about £20 - obviously it is free for pensioners, kids and those on benefits). Every child gets a place at their nearest school. The councils are always upgrading roads, creating tidal pools, building playparks and new BBQ facilities and shower blocks near the playing fields and no one burns them down.

No where is perfect but this idea that everywhere else in the world is as bad as the UK is nonsense. It's not a race to the bottom.

Is he? I didn't know that. Why?

This is such a good point. My DC has chosen a profession which isn’t the best paid but still very competitive. We spoke with them extensively about their expectations in life. Affordability. They are surrounded by people that are SO much richer than them too but they also appreciate what they do have. They have found activities at Uni they can afford and enjoy. They genuinely try to enjoy their life with the resources available to them.

OP is just trying to elevate herself in a way that puts everyone else down. OP does this in order to make out living in another ‘fairy tale’ country (which loads of us have managed to do without such theatricals) will suddenly solve her doubtful net contributor status. Again, I doubt OP will ever move out of the UK.

what a numpty !! what do you mean by .. why does she feel the need to keep all her earnings to herself. What entitlement.

He's back because he's getting old and he wants to die here. Everyone comes home eventually. and he needs to sort out the mess of his farms now he's liable to IHT.

I’m not sure what you are alluding to here? Long working hours?

I worked full time and still needed UC top ups to pay my rent (studio flat, all bills included apart from TV licence,) but it was cheaper than renting somewhere and paying separately for water, gas/electric, council tax and internet, and it was furnished. I mean, some of us need to work in lowly jobs like retail, right? I have no qualifications beyond GCSEs.

Exactly right.

No you're not getting it.

You just keep complaining in an incredibly vague fashion.

If you feel 23% of the population being pensioners is not an issue then tell us which of the other groups within the 52% you feel we should be working to minimise? If you said something practical like you felt we should be cutting down on public sector workers, reducing the number of students or reducing the 11% of people of Universal Credit you'd have a much clearer argument.

I'm not saying you're wrong, or that this isn't a problem or sustainable. But you seem uninterested in the actual specifics of the 52% and just want to complain endlessly