To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

If you want to go, then go.
If you don't, don't.

I have never felt the need to leave the UK permanently since: (a) I make a perfectly comfortable living here and supported a SAHM and 2 DCs and (b) everywhere has its problems and, if you do move overseas, you will, in all probability, face more of the same with the added disadvantage of being an alien.

Well, she’s also considering Israel. Though I’d suggest she look up how much of GDP is spent on defence, added to its percentage spent on welfare.

That wasn't the OP.

Wasn't that a different poster?

It actually does matter. If you sacked 100% of public servants and made higher education private, not publicly subsidised, then all of those services would be delivered by private enterprise. Private enterprise exists to make a profit. That would mean those services would cost more as, presently they are services provided without a profit element. Cost of living would grow greatly and tax decreases attributable to a lower cost base are unlikely to cover the increase.

You know perfectly well it is not your only option - you won’t suddenly drop dead if you stay. You are also totally reliant on the state, yourself, and plan to move to another country with a functioning state, so that you can rely on everything that has to offer you. I note, after all, it is not your plan to move to a failed state, or to in any other way be a brave pioneer, you only plan to accelerate the downturn of the state of your birth and instead benefit from and rely on a state where you are not a citizen, despite the fact the UK is a democracy, so things can change, and the UK has an incredibly long history of ups and downs.

So you see now how OP's presentation of ONS stats was misleading. Good. That was the point of my post, but nice try at deflecting.

No anarchy is the bottom line!

I don't blame you OP. Due to fiscal drag, loads of people are in the higher rate of tax bracket that shouldn't be. I think if the tax rates had kept in line with inflation, it would be about £80k but it is about £52k. If I was younger, I'd be off - although having said that, I think much of the West is in decline so not sure where I'd go.

We are thinking the same, OP. we don't earn as much as you but I'm thinking of going back to my country. It's third world but businesses can thrive there without many red tapes. I don't begrudge people who take when they have contributed unless they are disabled but live where I live up North, some people honestly don't even bother. Their full time job seems to be actors and actresses to fool PIP assessment. And being a foreigner I'm sick of being told to go back to my country when my tax money is paying for their ciggies and chavvy brats.

What I am suggesting is a million miles from communism, but I do think that those who are better off should contribute more to society rather than keeping it all to themselves and complaining that things aren't good enough.

We don't know how the OP comes to be so rich: Privileged background? Public school education? All round personal brilliance? Or simply good fortune?

Plus the stats the OP quotes are wrong. I'd like to see her sources tbh.

The NAO's estimates suggested that the UK government would spend around £600 million to send 300 people to Rwanda. Hardly value for money and an effective deterrent.

Thanks to the policies of previous Conservative governments, since the privatisation of energy and water companies, consumers are paying for the dividends of wealthy shareholders while they can't afford to heat their homes and our seas, rivers and stream are full of shit due to lack of any investment in infrastructure.

And as for the Conservative shitshow that is Brexit, the government watchdog estimates that the economy will take a 15 per cent hit to trade in the long term, while experts suggest that the UK has suffered £100bn in lost output each year.

I don’t think she was ‘lying’ as you accused. But hardly anyone is referring to the actual information and getting it wrong in the process. So if you added public sector to the figure you are in the same boat as what you’ve said for the op.

Well I suppose having the cash to invest in the cops and army might help with that.

Exactly! If you just sacked all people in higher education, people who work for the public sector (not just teachers, lecturers, doctors nurses etc but people at the Ministry of Defence, DEFRA etc) and stopped a state pension for those under 50, the OP’s “stats” would look better but economically, as well as a society we’d be worse off. Fewer well educated people (no uni), more people ill (no healthcare), more people having to be carers for the elderly (no pension). This would have a massive effect on the workforce.

You’re using “reliant” in the study, which is aimed at one thing, to support a totally different point and it doesn’t make sense.

No it won’t. A paid gun for hire will not protect you they will just take all of your money! Have you looked outside of your very comfortable existence in the UK?

Meanwhile those of us that value human existence, cooperation and hope for a better standard of living for all will keep paying our taxes and living in a society that doesn’t put a value number on everyone’s head.

We don't know if it would have been a deterrent as Labour cancelled it before the first plane took off. Strange decision by Sunak to call the election at that time really.

£600m? How much is Labour’s ‘smash the gangs’ costing? French police with the tear gas, a few deportation videos for optics, millions to Libya and other, ‘elite border security’ doing what exactly?

You’d have been better off letting the increased flow to ROI continue, it cost the tax payer nothing, people just paid to do that.

you do sound greedy to me. what exactly is it that you can't afford due to tax? a yacht? a private jet? DH and I are also in the top 1% of earners and are very happy with what we can afford here. A nice house in a safe and convenient area, a lovely couple of holidays each year, activities for the kids, a decent car plus a runaround. We have friends who are richer who have even bigger houses and more holidays. Genuinely confused about what you can't have with your earnings? If you're disappointed that you can't get a mansion in Mayfair then I'm afraid I have no sympathy and that's a pretty hollow ambition!

America is really in crisis, OP . True, fewer are on benefits because whenever Republicans are in power these are cut back. This leads to sn awful atmosphere. If you want to partake of the country’s life money can’t shield you completely.

And then there is Social Security, the state pension. About 20% of Americans currently take it. You and your employer each contribute 6.2% on the first $176,000 of your income. Top payout is now over $60K pa.
The system is projected to collapse in 2034-35. The machinations around this will be fun.

True, you will benefit from Trump’s tax cuts. But he is driving the country into the ground and the Democrats are likely to get in and swiftly undo them.

Between viable rates of Federal income tax, state income tax, sales tax, property tax ( the property taxes on a $2.5M house, a modest price for a good property in major cities, are likely to be north of $50K pa - just check the real estate listings), medical insurance, etc, I don’t see that you are likely to come out far ahead by moving to America unless it comes with a big promotion.

But you will see what happens when a country turns nasty.

Also in the 1% and considering leaving, probably in the next 3 to 5 years, once kids are finished school. We are also encouraging them to consider other countries to set up homes in, other than the UK.

I can't believe it's come to this. I'm 50-something and I've never seen the UK in such bad shape.

The writing is on the wall. Poland is going to be better off by 2030 than the UK. We'll all be going there for work and a better life.

No joke, it's for real. Apply for your european passports if you can people, because those doors are shutting too.

We thought Tories were bad but this lot are truly truly incompetent.

In October 2024, Chancellor Rachel Reeves announced the most significant tax increase since 1993, totaling £40 billion.

These measures aimed to bolster government revenue. However, the Laffer Curve suggests that beyond a certain point, higher tax rates can discourage economic activity, potentially leading to reduced tax revenue.

That's exactly where we are folks.

Millionaires are leaving at their fastest rate ever. Capital gains tax take has been downgraded for the next five years. Businesses are cutting not expanding.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/24/uk-firms-cutting-staff-at-fastest-pace-since-february-taxes-us-tariffs-pmiu-survey?utm_source=chatgpt.com

It's happening folks.

People hate the 1% but they pay for a ton of stuff. You'll miss them when they're gone because they'll take their tax-take with them.

Add to that, the housing market is looking wobbly too.

When money leaves, guess what happens to property?

Well, I am not in the same boat as the OP, am I? Which is a good thing as I wouldn't trust them not to throw me overboard.🤭

Yes, what a terrible shame no one has invited @Taxed to set out the breakdown of the actual figures she’s relying on. Oh wait…

Well they probably feel similarly 🤭

Socialists believe that all the money you earn belongs to the State. And the state decides how much of it you are allowed to keep.

And Conservatives/capitalists believe that all the money you earn is yours (no matter what your background is) and the state decides how much to tax.

I prefer the latter but that's just my own principles. Socialists believe the former and that's valid too.