To think we can’t revive the country on the backs of the poor, the struggling, or the middle class?

[ForBreezySloth]

Every time there’s an economic crisis, it seems like the burden always fall on the same groups - through tax hikes, cuts to services, and stagnant wages, while the wealthiest remain untouched. Surely a country can’t truly recover if the majority of its people are struggling just to get by? Yet time and time again, we’re told we all have to “tighten our belts” - except, conveniently, those at the top.

AIBU to think this approach isn’t sustainable or is it just the reality of how economies work?

Well if you look at the figures, currently the top 10% of earners are paying 60% of all income tax, the top 1% of earners are already paying around 30% of all income tax.

Increasing that further will just drive those earners away, lots of them have already left to set up elsewhere and suddenly then we don’t see any of their tax.

Those are the top are paying plenty of tax. They are just less affected by the loss of public services because they use them the least.

Obviously, people that use public services the most will feel the biggest impact when those services are cut.

What do you want? Is the government supposed to ban rich people altogether?

We couldn't possibly tax the rich people any more no we don't want them to run away do we however would we cope without the rich people who make us all better off

🙄

Well, how do you suggest we raise the 60% of tax paid by the highest earners?
It's ok being snippy and trying to be clever but what do you think should happen?

I’m not suggesting we ban rich people - just that wealthier individuals and corporations could shoulder more of the burden, especially during crises. Yes, they may pay higher absolute tax but they’re also less affected by cuts to services, stagnant wages, and rising costs. Meanwhile, those with the least are expected to “tighten their belts” while already stretched thin. The point is about fairness and sustainability, not abolishing wealth - though thanks for the leap.

Well if you read the stats posted above, yes they do rather keep the rest of us afloat. There was a piece in the Times about this yesterday. A so called "wealth tax" has never worked wherever it has been tried. I don't know what the answer is, I'm not an economist, but defining "the rich" and "them" vs "us" is not the way to get a country to pull together.

Look at the figures and give your head a shake.

Top 10% of earners paying 60% of all income tax- they quite literally are keeping things going. We’d ALL be paying far more if they all fucked off and we lost that £.

But they're also being paid 35 per cent of all the income, which is far more than their fair share!

so basically in this country you get punished for working hard and earning a good salary. I know plenty of well educated people with good salaries who are leaving now or have left because of changes to income tax from foreign investments, VAT on private schools, punitive tax if you earn over 100k. These people employ cleaners, PTs, tutors, tennis coaches, nannies, eat out a lot, use taxis more than tubes, give to charity, have private health insurance. You think we don’t need them in the country? They contribute more than half the benefits claimants.

I have lots of colleagues in the charity sector who have lost many of their major donors now. Nobody is better off because wealthy people leave.

Who decides what is their “fair” share? You get paid the wage for the job you have, the experience, qualifications, expertise etc. Yes, the CEO of a global company is paid far more than the man who valets at our local car wash- that isn’t unfair though, that’s life, work, jobs.

If it was so easy to be earning those figures then everybody would be doing it.

It’s not a perfect system but the wealthiest are already paying the majority, and they aren’t a charity.

It’s pretty clear that at some point when you keep raising taxes on rich people you end up with less tax, not more tax. The idea that rich people aren’t taxed heavily / haven’t had taxes them increased a lot is a bit strange given the various tax raises done - if you want to compare the UK vs Europe most analysis suggests we actually tax rich people similarly to the rest of the Europe (and a lot more than in the US) but tax lower earners a lot less than in Europe which is why they have high overall tax takes as a percentage of GDP. If you want to see the downside of always looking to try and find a way to take more taxes from rich people (a) look at the way that Labour is having to look at rolling back some of their tax changes around non doms as it’s starting to look like there is a risk they may cost money rather than make money, (b) look at what’s happened with CGT where CGT amounts raised in tax have been falling and are now predicted to fall even more with all the changes (and those changes all pushed tax rates up instead of down).

The top 10% are already paying 60% of all income tax- they are already paying the majority, and they’re not a charity, it’s not their responsibility to keep this country afloat.

It is not fair or sustainable to tax people so much that it stops being worth striving to build a successful business or to work and study until you’re at the top of a career.

If you try and tax me more, then I’ll simply drop to PT. The extra days will then be picked up by someone in another country. That’ll result in a net loss in UK tax revenue. My earnings will drop a fraction, but I’ll have a better work-life balance. If everyone earning £200k does the same, then that’s not actually going to help, is it? Or alternatively, I could move abroad. My professional qualifications are in demand, and I can work anywhere across Europe. Plus I don’t have any school-age children any more. I wouldn’t even have to change company, I could just ask for relocation.

I’m not saying we don’t need high earners. But it’s a stretch to suggest that asking them to contribute proportionally more, especially during national crises, is the same as “punishing” them.

The idea that spending on services like cleaners and taxis equals social contribution oversimplifies what a functioning economy and fair society look like. And I’d be careful about writing off benefit claimants - many work, many can’t work for legitimate reasons, and they’re part of the same economy, often doing the hardest jobs with the least recognition. Fairness isn’t about blaming one group - it’s about everyone contributing in a way that reflects both their capacity and the collective need.

I agree with this, although companies can be taxed more and get rid of legal loop holes such a trusts etc. The problem is it's easy for the rich to hide money and avoid paying taxes but poor Joe Bloggs can't avoid it. And an actual poor person is basically always catching up as they will always be living pay check to pay check

Who said the OP is talking about PAYE workers? I took it to mean the uber rich.

For the majority of history the rich and powerful have been sheltered while the poor has to make do.

They do contribute more, that's just a fact. A big issue is also how many people are not net contributors. That number is bound to increase, then what will happen.

We need to attract rich people who spend money into the UK as it stands we are driving them away

Your right,

We are never going to tax, cut or save our way out of this. The deficit is huge.

The only way is growth. Gov really need to free up and empower small and medium business. Both at home and internationally.

There is already a marginal tax rate of 60% between £100,000 and £125,140. Plus 2% NI and 9% student loan repayments (15% if you did a masters). So that can result in having only 23% of your earnings between those amounts as take-home pay. Do you really think that you can raise that any higher and argue that that is “fair”?

I get that some high earners are mobile and could relocate but shaping national tax policy around the preferences of the most privileged isn’t sustainable or fair. People earning £200k+ are still in a far better position than the millions struggling with stagnating wages, rising costs and gutted services. The idea that fairness shouldn’t even be attempted because a few might step back or leave just reinforces the imbalance.

A functioning society needs investment and that means those with the broadest shoulders contributing proportionally. If the only way the system works is by appeasing those most able to leave, maybe it’s time we asked harder questions about what we value.

Now for a bit of bullshit busting;

https://equalitytrust.org.uk/news/press-release/uk-still-taxes-the-poorest-more-than-the-richest/

Excellent points.