To think we can’t revive the country on the backs of the poor, the struggling, or the middle class?

[ForBreezySloth]

Every time there’s an economic crisis, it seems like the burden always fall on the same groups - through tax hikes, cuts to services, and stagnant wages, while the wealthiest remain untouched. Surely a country can’t truly recover if the majority of its people are struggling just to get by? Yet time and time again, we’re told we all have to “tighten our belts” - except, conveniently, those at the top.

AIBU to think this approach isn’t sustainable or is it just the reality of how economies work?

Yeah, I don't know why people always threaten this

And I always find it fascinating that the self proclaimed "rich" of Mumsnet have so few family or friendship ties that they would happily get up and leave the country without a backwards glance. I have heaps of people I love here, and feel part of the community, it would be a huge wrench to leave

As you well say, we are asked to pull together and reduce our expectations (tighten our belts, yet agsin!) over and over.
If Labour interferes in the ruling against car lendrs, that would be it! For once these guys are held accountable for some of the money they pinch from us, we need to protect them and feel sorry for them or something?! It is the financial world which creates this type of problem, by being dishonest. But, we pay for it. They should actually be severely fined by the State, for takingvmoney from the every day worker just trying to buy a car to go to work and take the kids to school.

Oh, please let them leave! These are the guys who take the money and return nothing. The guys who drove Thames Water inefficient and broke, yet took bonuses. The guys who charged extras for car loans... Let them leave, but.... the assets do stay in UK. We should, indeed, be changing some laws and make sure you cannot hold a job in UK without living here, neither have property over X value, neither take the money is owned to the State anywhere out of UK. The guys can go to the moon, if they want to. No more Rishi Sunak "living" in US, but holding a top UK government position. Enough is enough.

Totally agree with this

It's not just millionaires and billionaires who are leaving.

Young talent- our future net contributors- is leaving. Because being a net contributor is now a dirty word.

As I’ve grown older I’ve realised the majority of people in this country have a beggar mindset.

Give it a few decades and the country will only be filled with pensioners believing they’ve contributed enough to claim 40 years of pension and other age related benefits, underclass cash in hand Tommy Robinson supporters, and asylum seekers.

No young person with anything about them will stay. It’s depressing.

Give it a few decades and the country will only be filled with pensioners believing they’ve contributed enough to claim 40 years of pension and other age related benefits,

Err, we have this now! 😆

I am pretty fed up with paying as much tax as I do, and seeing so much go to unsustainable benefits and adult social care. I think our benefits system is far too generous - the tax the rich mob can’t cope with removing WFA from society’s wealthiest people, for crying out loud. If the Govt is going to spend money it needs to spend it on stuff that makes us more productive - half decent public transport and power, for example.

@Aspanielstolemysanity but I'm assuming you worked hard over many years to get where you are now? And I'm assuming that fewer people can do your job then the one you did at 16? As with most things, its rarity that determines value... A lot, not all, nmw jobs could be done with a day or two of training by most people. A skilled engineer or medic or CEO not so much. Unless we have a total radical overhaul of how we reward work...eg carers who are absolutely vital being paid what they are worth rather than the pittance they are currently, that will continue to be the model. But how you determine what job is worth more? Are binmen more important than carers? How about road repairs?

My little idea is this: identify the areas that have moribund empty housing and sites for new builds. Identify the increase infrastructure needed to support them, schools, go surgeries etc etc, identify the costs involved in building and staffing all of it. Set up a nationally owned company to build it, directly employ the site managers, trades etc with generous enough terms that include a compulsory level of apprentice schemes for all the trades, the business admin needed to run it, the health and social care quals for the nurseries and in home help needed, partnerships with existing schemes to offer incentives for people to train specifically as GPs and teachers with a caveat that they must work in the NHS and state schools for X years or have to pay it back. A minimum of ten if not twenty years cross party agreement that the scheme will achieve it's goals and not be ditched or changed with a change of government. Oversight and legislation to prevent the HS2 fiasco. Ultimately, the houses to be built will be 50/50 council owned and remain that way. The privately owned ones are sold initially at no more than 3/4 times the average wage in that area. Affordablility criteria based on evidence that people have paid a similar level of rent reliably for X years, not if they have a huge deposit. The overall scheme is not for profit OR all citizens can invest in bonds / shares that support it.

I'm sure lots of people will tell me that's unworkable and I'm not an economist but I feel like something huge and radical and innovative needs to happen. Tinkering with tax won't do it.

the tax the rich mob can’t cope with removing WFA from society’s wealthiest people, for crying out loud. I

I agree, this is ridiculous

Our commited really talented young guys are staying here.
And those wanting to leave, well goodbye.

They do. And they’re leaving.

Oil companies pay 75% over a certain threshold and they’re leaving. Shell once used to be the largest company on London stock exchange. A stock exchange which has gone from being the second largest to being a footnote in international markets. A complete joke of a market where no major company wants to list.

The largest company now, Astra Zeneca, is also leaving London and going to the US.

The individual rich are also leaving at a huge rate, taking their much hated money with them.

Thus country is now no more than a bunch of beggar minded greener handout takers. People who site there with their palm out fighting over scraps rather than wanting to do anything to actually earn their out of a problem. Benefits Britain where of one benefit doesn’t suffice, there’s always another one.

First the rich leave, then the middle earners, and then all that’s left is the crabs in a buckets who either contribute nothing or not enough. It would be an absolute miracle if the IMF doesn’t need to bail out this handout nation by 2030, like it is did in 1976.

Heh. Ok. Not what I am seeing. Though admittedly I have not bothered to dig up data.
I am not sure why people think a 22 -year-old needs to be deeply committed to never being able to afford a house.

I agree with you @ForBreezySloth

it’s not nice getting to the end of the month and worrying if you can afford food. I receive no benefits, no help with childcare and pay a high proportion of my wage in tax. There is not much disposable income

it becomes less fav wrench the richer people are as the richer are more likely to have moved to progress careers / grow their business and have no sense of belonging in any one place.

It is easy. They are British and love their country.

@RhaenysRocks , yes, I worked hard. I am not sure I ever worked harder than in that minimum wage job though. I also benefitted from

• parents wealthy enough to pay for tutors and a house near a decent school ,and lots of books in the house and travel
• parents who could support me through 5 years of university and 2 years of on the job training
• family connections for work experience and even my first professional job
• tolerably good health
• tolerably good brains and no learning difficulties

I don't doubt my niche skills now mean I should probably be paid more purely due to economic realities, but I am not better or more worthy or harder working than people who haven't had the same opportunities as me

We are not beggars, neither we do think we are! Most people in UK do work or study and they work hard. They save hard and party hard. And we like being kind to those who are ill or disabled.

Who do you mean here, people you know?

Yes, of course. Higher education.

The largest company now, Astra Zeneca, is also leaving London and going to the US.

Are taxes lower in the US?

Yes for those saying leave which would you prefer?

I agree with PP. This is a nation of majority beggars. You can see it on here. How many threads start with ‘AIBU to think I can start x business in this region and turn a profit with 2 years’ as opposed to ‘AIBU to think I can claim UC so I can spend more time with DC before they start school’ or ‘how do people afford to go on holiday?’ Or ‘we need to increase taxes’.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m0029hd8
This is a v interesting podcast about tax and its history and future. Easily digestible for a non economist like me! Makes the point that our system should work, we should be collecting enough tax under the rules we have. But we're not. So the focus should be on better collection - catching those who don't I assume, and encouraging more to simply do the right thing.

But we are a nation of scammers aren't we? With a low level of trust in our government and systems so people aren't inclined (that's my take, not Dan Neidle's!).

We need to stop equalling " hard work=high salary".
A lot of poorly paid people work extremely hard.

People at the top on the whole have had their healthy share of advantages , which has allowed them to get the best of everything in order to suceed.

It's often not working hard,but having been born in a family who could offer a set of privileged circumstances.

Wealth is often passed on. Merit has its place too because you could screw up even with all your privileges, but let's not carry on with this rethoric that working hard equates financial success.

It's just not true.