To think we can’t revive the country on the backs of the poor, the struggling, or the middle class?

[ForBreezySloth]

Every time there’s an economic crisis, it seems like the burden always fall on the same groups - through tax hikes, cuts to services, and stagnant wages, while the wealthiest remain untouched. Surely a country can’t truly recover if the majority of its people are struggling just to get by? Yet time and time again, we’re told we all have to “tighten our belts” - except, conveniently, those at the top.

AIBU to think this approach isn’t sustainable or is it just the reality of how economies work?

also the courage to distinguish between struggling professionals, the comfortably off, and the truly wealthy

What makes one move to the other? It is assets and ‘unearned’ wealth as you say. Saving, risk taking whether investing/ starting a business, asset accumulation etc. Why are we discouraging that.

That is just Gary economics. And he’s race to the bottom in disguised form. He’s not here to save you. He’s literally pulling the ladder up behind him.

IMO; The main problem with the economics in this country atm is low wages, stifled growth and entitlement by everyone that they should get free stuff. And I really mean everyone.

I honestly think it’s getting so bad that we need something so radical it just changes mindset entirely. Give everyone Universal income. Everyone. £500 a week or so.

After that. EVERYONE is taxed at x amount. No caps, no ledges, no brackets. No student loan tax. It’s going to be high. It’s going to be universal. And that is that. It’s going to be the same for capital gains disposals and for income.

Scrap VAT. Scrap stamp duty. Get businesses moving, get the housing market moving.

No one’s in poverty. Everyone is better off in work. Red tape is removed and growth is encouraged.

i grew up in a poor household. The dream of financial security is what strove me to study hard and earn more. I earn a v high salary because I worked hard. I studied. Of course my hard earmed financial security should be shared around. What would incentivise others to work hard?

You seem to have no concept of economics and taxes OP. Any uber wealthy person either has or can get a passport of multiple countries. They live in a range of countries throughout the year. They currently choose to pay tax in the UK by living here most. They could change to pay taxes in another country merely by choosing to live a few less weeks in the UK and a few more weeks elsewhere. Trying to base a nations tax take on a few wealthy individuals is a disaster.

Agree with some of this. You can’t scrappy VAT though. It’s a HUGE wedge of the tax take - 30%~ish.

I had a child diagnosed with a serious illness and someone said to me ‘you’ll be able to claim pip for that’. That is the attitude that is sinking this country. Thinking the government should pay you money for any sort of misfortune.

Until we start doing this - making EVERYONE pay more tax - our public services will continue to lag behind other EU countries. They have better services as the lower earners pay considerably more tax there than they do here.

Capital gains are taxed less to compensate for the risk taken in making that investment. Growth won’t happen if we stifle investment. Look at the massive drop off in CGT tax since the government reduced the nil rate CGT allowance.

You go first. Is life here made better by public services? I think so. The top 1% of income earners pay about 29% of income tax or about 10-15% of all tax take.

How would you choose to make up the gap? You need a 10-15% budget cut (austerity), or a 50% income tax hike on the rest of the taxpayers. Or some equivalent move. What are you choosing?

Multinational companies aren’t evading any taxes. There are international tax laws in place that they are following that allow them to do what they are doing. It’s perfectly legal. Start clamping down on Google and Trump will double our tariffs overnight. It’s such a stupid move to think that these companies are the answer to our woes. There not. SMEs don’t seem to be either as 40% of them evaded tax last year. Not a great advertisement…

No as housing etc reflect what people can afford. I have lived in Scandinavia and it’s an excellent tax system. Benefits are harder to get so people all work. Childcare is cheaper and deemed better for the child than staying at home (and who’s to argue with their happiness ratings?) and the society is totally invested in everyone working and paying tax. Everyone pulls together for the benefit of the community.

It’s interesting though in recent years to see how immigrants who have a different attitude to society, work and tax are leading to a lot of social unrest. Denmark’s socialist government has massively clamped down on immigration as a result. It’s not playing along with the immigration rules accepted by countries such as the UK, and the government is very popular as a result.

Contributors are those earning over £55,000

I've decided to emigrate. The conversation is always about how to tax more when really the state is far too big.

I'm happy to pay tax in the country I'm going to but not here, it's economic chaos here.

@ForBreezySloth

No one is denying that high earners contribute a lot in raw numbers but fairness in taxation isn’t just about absolute figures, it’s also about how wealth is structured and who bears the brunt when times are tough.

Amazing as it may seem, UK tax is unusually progressive compared to OECD peers, with the burden falling in middle earners being unusually low.

I’d suggest the answer has to be to prioritise growth, and encouraging more high-income people to come here. Which means being careful about top tax rates and the political messaging.

But more than that, we need to move the main political conversation off who bears the burden of tax and cuts, onto how to get the economy growing after 20 years of stagnation. The tax debate is the sticking-plaster. The hard work is to fix the fundamentals to grow the pie.

Recently went to NY, Statue of Liberty;

“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore”

They built a very rich country on tired huddled masses, yet unfortunately, here- there seems to be a policy that immigrants aren’t allowed to work?

Please forgive my ignorance if this is incorrect.

Our GDP is low, so our economy is not growing…
millionaires and billionaires, entrepreneurs etc are leaving in their droves..

maybe we are all sick of paying for those with a bad back or those who are lazy.. those who won’t earn a penny for their whole lives..

Yet HMRC is criticised for not knowing how much the 156 billionaires are paying in tax

do you know something they don’t?

https://taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-did-not-occur-study-reveals/

www.imidaily.com/europe/uk-lost-10800-millionaires-in-2024-as-non-dom-changes-spark-record-exodus/

todayswillsandprobate.co.uk/britain-set-to-lose-record-numbers-of-millionaires/

If you include council tax as well then the working poor are taxed more than the rich.
On percentage of income, the poorest working people pay 48% of their income and the richest 10% pay 39% of theirs. How is that fair?

They’d start to leave and take their taxes with them. I never ever thought I’d contemplate leaving the U.K. but even I am (slightly) considering it.

Money gives you freedom, and that includes the freedom to move elsewhere.

They way to give the vast majority of people more money in their pocket is to generate growth.

Controversially, we also need a dramatic reset in the housing market. I wish property was bought as a home, not an investment. It would devalue property (so totally unworkable) but housing costs would drop significantly for everyone.

What actually needs to happen but never will, is proper property taxes. Either a land value tax or a tax of a percentage of the property value paid yearly. Even changes to inheritance tax would help so that the rate decreases to say 10% but it applies to every estate would disincentivise people from trying to avoid it and raise more money.

None of this will happen because too few people will vote for it. The only tax changes which would be voted in are increases in income tax or wealth tax for other people which won’t raise much money.

Yes.. that’s a perfect way to growth..
let’s just bankrupt the country now.. reset those house prices .. start again.. maybe they should give homes away to the most ‘worthy’
I think a lot of people have forgotten we don’t live in a Commune and nor should our life experience be dictated by the lowest common denominator of GDP….

Immigrants to the UK aren't allowed to work? That's the first I have heard of this.🙄

I meant to quote the ppl who claimed immigrants don't work, but quote didn't work. However if posters don't even know the difference between highly skilled immigrants and asylum seekers, and think anyone who looks foreign can't possibly be a net contributor, Reform is definitely in.

Y building more council and social housing, this reduces private rental cost, thus stagnating housing prices. If less % of your household income is used for rent - you subsequently have more to spend, which does help the economy

private landlords are apparently selling up anyway and cooperations are buying of plan to rent

If less % of your household income is used for rent - you subsequently have more to spend, which does help the economy

Why don't more people grasp this point, so much money is spent on housing when it could be put into other parts of the economy.

It's such a lie that wealthier people work harder .
The more senior I have become the less hard I have had to work, and the more autonomy and flexibility I have had.

My hardest job was my minimum wage job I did straight after school

Gary for PM!!

Amazing as it may seem, UK tax is unusually progressive compared to OECD peers, with the burden falling in middle earners being unusually low.

And the reason they can't increase it is housing costs. It's also why a PAYE worker on 100k feels hard done by because so much gets spent on housing costs & the services they pay for are eroding so other countries do look more attractive.

But more than that, we need to move the main political conversation off who bears the burden of tax and cuts, onto how to get the economy growing after 20 years of stagnation. The tax debate is the sticking-plaster. The hard work is to fix the fundamentals to grow the pie.

This, we need something radical to fix it but I am not sure how you get people to buy into it. Currently we are just on a doom loop.