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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 21:54

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 21:50

Going straight to the isms and phobias to shut down dialogue is so 2019.

Sorry, didn’t realise calling out bigotry had an expiration date. Should I check the ‘acceptable outrage’ calendar next time?

Venalopolos · 25/07/2025 21:55

Pinty · 25/07/2025 16:55

It depends what she means.
Of course everyone has to obey the law of the country they live in but they don't have to wear the same clothes, eat the same food, or celebrate the same festivals.
Many countries including the UK have embraced other cultures, food and language and developed .
And I think we are a lot richer for it.

Do you live in a city? I agree with the picture you paint, but the reality is that there are suburbs I can drive to in 5 mins where I don’t speak the language and feel very unwelcome because I don’t wear the same clothes or practice the same religion as every person who lives there.

The problem isn’t multiculturalism, is that there are cultures that are choosing not to integrate which doesn’t result in the beautiful multicultural society you talk about.

I agree with the friend.

pearcrumblee · 25/07/2025 21:57

How do you integrate cultures that believe women who show some leg are to blame if men are attracted to them?
The trouble is some of these are soooo radically different, there is no such thing as feminism in their cultures.
I agree with your friend, it’s refreshingly honest.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 21:58

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 21:54

Sorry, didn’t realise calling out bigotry had an expiration date. Should I check the ‘acceptable outrage’ calendar next time?

It’s not so much an expiration date as it’s just not effective anymore and a bit cringey. If you want to win people over to your rather odd world view (IMO) then you can do it with persuasive arguments rather than lame attempts to shut down discussion.

WhereIsMyJumper · 25/07/2025 22:00

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 21:58

It’s not so much an expiration date as it’s just not effective anymore and a bit cringey. If you want to win people over to your rather odd world view (IMO) then you can do it with persuasive arguments rather than lame attempts to shut down discussion.

Completely agree

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 22:01

Obviously, she's correct. I grew up in a home counties town with a very large 'islamist' population - as in, we had the most people who ran off to join isis in the UK at one point. I went to a grammar school, and was very 'lefty'. I absolutely believed in muticulturalism, and was of course proud of the fact I had 'friends' from different cultures. Proud of the fact I 'tolerated them'.

This was long before hijabs were really a thing and you wouldn't usually have been able to even tell someone was muslim until they told you. Nowadays the women shuffle along in burkhas or long black robes with only their faces uncovered. I no longer live there, but drive through occasionally as my father still lives in a nearby village. It's not safe nowadays though, especially for women, so I wouldn't ever think to stop. My old village is nicer than ever though, they've just installed a very smart new playground and the common's busier than ever. Awesome farm shop just down the road, and a great new coffee shop in the neighbouring village with yummy mozzarella and parma ham focaccias, and homemade brownies. Occasionally, there are even non-white people. So we can all feel terribly proud of tolerating them.


I think it was the grooming gangs that first made me question my 'multiculturalism is great' stance. When I remembered the gangs of immigrant men who would hang around the shopping centre, catcalling us, following us or shouting abuse at us. When we were 13/14, and in school uniform. I remembered some girls were known to hang around with these men, and we called them sluts. I remember one girl, again about 13/14, in her puffa jacket (don't know why I remember the puffa, other than I think we thought that was 'common' at the time). I remembered seeing her in the centre of a group of much older males of 'immigrant-origin'. The males were grinning and laughing. And she looked embarrassed. Probably because I sneered at her, as I thought she was a slut. I had no idea what was likely happening to her, or what 'slut' even meant. I just knew that it meant she was 'rough'.

I also remembered the muslim man (Zulf - cool name) I worked with, who was sweet and funny and charming, and very into aftershave so always smelt amazing. And who had two white girlfriends, one who he told he loved and wanted to marry, and was only delaying until his grandparents died as they were very old-fashioned. And he was being told by his parents he had to go to Pakistan to marry (he would have been late-mid 20s), and I laughingly asked if he was going to tell his adoring girlfriend. And he laughed back, and said "white girls are for fucking, but you've got to marry a muslim". And we both laughed. I'm a white girl.


And then I remembered that I lost touch with the bright, funny muslim girls (that I'd been so proud of being friends with) when we turned 17/18 and my white friends and I had discovered the pub. None of them went to university, they married young, and soon had children.

Finally, I remembered occasional women of 'immigrant origin' I'd encountered who I'd considered horribly racist, and certainly not the sort of people I'd want to be associated with. They grew up in these segregated 'communities' and gone through hell attempting to escape. They used the 'P' word and said that the only abuse they'd ever received was from these males who would abuse them verbally and physically and demand they put on some 'modest' clothing, and behave like proper muslims. They said they got away because they were fortunate enough to have fathers (not just mothers) who wanted more for them. I of course considered both their views and language extremely bigoted.


But now I've remembered, I don't believe in multiculturalism. I don't believe a society is just where a little girl can grow up in one house being told she can do anything at all and wear anything at all and be anything at all can live next door to a little girl who is told she must behave and dress in a certain way or she will bring shame upon the family, or be asking to be raped, or even murdered. I believe society is racist when we turn a blind eye to non-white parents treating their children in a way that would see white parents taken to court. I believe it is extremely dangerous when we are fine with millions of children (especially boys) being told that a female who does not 'cover herself' is a whore, a lesser being, who is asking for sex and should be treated with contempt. It seems very obvious when written down! And yet... it's contentious.

I have friends of all 'colours' who have been born and raised in Britain, or elsewhere, with absolutely no 'British blood'. And who are absolutely 100% British. Who, ironically, have (or their parents have) moved here because they wanted to get away from 'their own' culture, and embrace western values.

This is, and has never ever, been about skin colour. This is entirely about culture. And thank god we're waking up to it.

(Sorry for lecture! I've been waiting a long time to admit this, though still felt the need to change my name... TL;DR I agree with 'the friend', multiculturalism was always obviously bound to bring nothing but misery and horror.)

RubySquid · 25/07/2025 22:02

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:04

It is definitely not my opinion. I live in a small village out in the sticks and I'm not aware of anyone in the village I live in who is from a different culture or is a different race to myself.
I have no direct experience of different ethnicities, except what I hear from other people.
My friend lives 40 miles away from me in a town and her experience of living in a busy town are different to mine.

So she probably has a more realistic view.

crackofdoom · 25/07/2025 22:05

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 21:53

What religions do you think should have the finger pointed at them?

Edited

Christian fundamentalists, whether they be American MAGA nutjobs or homegrown cults (have you ever heard how the Plymouth Brethren expect their women to dress and behave, or the hushing up of child abuse accusations?)

Strict Orthodox Jewish communities (similar issues with lack of integration and oppression of women)

Higher caste BJP supporting Hindus, currently discriminating against Muslims, Sikhs and lower caste Hindus, to the point of causing riots in this country.

Etcetera.

crackofdoom · 25/07/2025 22:10

God, I can't believe I forgot the Catholic Church in general with its massive volume of child abuse scandals. Or the Anglican for that matter. Or is child abuse in the Anglican church different because it's "British Culture"?

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 22:10

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 21:58

It’s not so much an expiration date as it’s just not effective anymore and a bit cringey. If you want to win people over to your rather odd world view (IMO) then you can do it with persuasive arguments rather than lame attempts to shut down discussion.

Ahhhh, the classic ‘stop calling out bigotry, it’s cringey now’ defense. Tell you what - when Islamophobia stops being a thing, I’ll stop pointing it out. Until then, sorry if accuracy offends your aesthetic! ✌🏽

SouthernFashionista · 25/07/2025 22:16

As a Black woman, I agree with your friend.

yellowdress34 · 25/07/2025 22:17

I agree with your friend. I think anyone who disagrees is very likely being disingenuous and possibly virtue signalling. Or is living in a bubble of their own.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 22:17

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 22:10

Ahhhh, the classic ‘stop calling out bigotry, it’s cringey now’ defense. Tell you what - when Islamophobia stops being a thing, I’ll stop pointing it out. Until then, sorry if accuracy offends your aesthetic! ✌🏽

Is it really a classic? I thought I was being quite original. By all means carry on, I was just letting you know it’s a bit out of date and you just aren’t going to be able to silence discussion like that anymore. Try persuasive arguments of integration into British society and examples of just how fantastic it’s going.

SouthernFashionista · 25/07/2025 22:20

anotherside · 25/07/2025 19:41

Basically agree with her. I’m in Ireland and like seeing people from different backgrounds. But I don’t really like seeing people wearing certain religious costumes which is basically advertising the fact that their values are at odds with those held by the vast majority. Ireland is finally breaking free from centuries of Catholicism and becoming a non-religious dominated society where the vast majority have similar fairly inclusive core values. I think if you don’t subscribe to those core values (equality of men/women, gay rights etc) why would you wish to live in a country where those are valued.

It’s interesting that you mention Ireland. I visited recently and was shocked at the change since my last visit. It’s now wholly multicultural. Very little ‘Irishness’ in evidence at all. People were lovely but frankly met no Irish.

GulliaumeDuc · 25/07/2025 22:21

The people trotting out “racist” when anybody dares to question the accepted wisdom on this are the reason we’ll be getting a Reform government in four years. Slow hand clap all round really.

crackofdoom · 25/07/2025 22:22

SouthernFashionista · 25/07/2025 22:20

It’s interesting that you mention Ireland. I visited recently and was shocked at the change since my last visit. It’s now wholly multicultural. Very little ‘Irishness’ in evidence at all. People were lovely but frankly met no Irish.

What no leprechauns doing Riverdance while drinking Guinness? 😆

How did you know you met no Irish people? Did none of the people serving you your flat white say "Top of the mornin' to ye"?

Livelovebehappy · 25/07/2025 22:24

Multiculturism is an experiment that failed, but it’s too late now to rectify. It just doesn’t work. People with different values and culture will not integrate, but instead create their own little bubbles to exist in. That’s the reality.

placemats · 25/07/2025 22:25

Can someone please explain to me what UK culture means?

pearcrumblee · 25/07/2025 22:25

@bestchooseanother

”I believe society is racist when we turn a blind eye to non-white parents treating their children in a way that would see white parents taken to court.”

Totally agree.
My best friend was Muslim when we were at school and she hated the fact that she had to wear a hijab. She use to wish the govt would ban them. She dated boys in secret as she use to say if her family found out they would get her married off to a relative. This is abnormal.

This great country was built on the idea of freedom for the individual, it has taken so many years and governments to get to this stage. Yet as a nation we seem to be supporting the opposite, allowing the oppression of women, under the guise of being inclusive.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 22:27

placemats · 25/07/2025 22:25

Can someone please explain to me what UK culture means?

A few people have tried that line already. Could you possibly come up with something new?

SpaceRaccoon · 25/07/2025 22:30

Can someone please explain to me what UK culture means?

You know like French culture or Germsm culture or Italian culture?
Like that but Britain.

VisitationRights · 25/07/2025 22:30

It’s too bad you didn’t enable the voting, I think you would see the majority agree with your friend.

crackofdoom · 25/07/2025 22:33

placemats · 25/07/2025 22:25

Can someone please explain to me what UK culture means?

Passive aggression, binge drinking and enjoying a cosy evening as a family watching Jim'll Fix it, then sending the kids to bed and tutting over Muslim paedophiles.

placemats · 25/07/2025 22:34

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 22:27

A few people have tried that line already. Could you possibly come up with something new?

Edited

I'm British and white. Love all bits of the UK. Not of Saxon heritage though, more Normandy. Can you explain in English what UK culture is?

Because it seems to me that you can't. So I'm presuming that you're not British.

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 22:35

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 22:17

Is it really a classic? I thought I was being quite original. By all means carry on, I was just letting you know it’s a bit out of date and you just aren’t going to be able to silence discussion like that anymore. Try persuasive arguments of integration into British society and examples of just how fantastic it’s going.

Edited

Silence discussion? Goodness. If your idea of ‘discussion’ is airing thinly veiled bigotry and expecting polite applause, then yes, I’ll keep ‘silencing’ that all day. And since you asked for persuasive arguments: Muslims are integrated. We build your NHS, teach your kids, pay your taxes, and still have to prove our ‘Britishness’ to people whose entire personality is being uncomfortable with diversity. Try harder.