Is my best friend racist?

[Newnamefortouchysubject]

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

This is true, but the slavery and treatment of women from ‘other lesser’ groups was a cultural norm just as it is today amongst some groups in the UK.

Think that ship has sailed, unless you implement The Handmaid’s Tale and start forcing women to have babies.

Your friend is entirely sensible - we need to dostinguish between race and culture.

Issues need to be discussed openly, otherwise we will never fix them.

so you’ve never had to walk past a “shop” (which is clearly a front for some other kind of activity) with your small daughter whilst groups of men gather around outside gawping at you both and sometimes making comments (those that can actually speak any English) as you walk past?

You’ve never experienced taking your small daughter to the park and being followed around by a man who repeatedly tries to make conversation with you in broken English despite making it clear you want to be left alone?

You’ve never had to walk past a migrant hotel whilst large groups of men stare at you and shout stuff at you that you can’t understand?

you’ve never - as a medical professional - been treated like a dog by a male patient because in his culture women are worthless?

ok … well then there is no wonder you are naive.

Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from criticism - especially when your ‘opinions’ sound like a recycled Daily Mail comment section. You’re free to talk. I’m free to call out the agenda behind it. That’s how it works!

Misogyny is a UK wide problem, blaming it on immigrants is simplistic and reductive.

2 women are killed every week by an intimate partner (mainly white men).

97% of rapes do not end in a conviction (mainly white men)

Your friend is correct.
Humans are tribal. Always have been and always will be.

Sure, that’s why Brits have a reputation of hooliganism abroad,

That's a sub-section though. I'm sure you or I don't go abroad to watch football and cause havoc, so it's surely not difficult to extrapolate that.

hmm, I think you are being disingenuous. Here’s the quote again:

’It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.
Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

If you dislike immigrants so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 16%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

I don’t dislike immigrants so much, not sure where you’re getting that idea? I‘m married to one. No I very much don’t want to live in a country where immigrants make up over 16%, which is why I’ll be voting to sort that situation out. Yes there are lots of cultural things I like about the U.K., I was born here and didn’t move here for economic reasons.

Would you like to answer my question whether you just moved here for economic reasons or if there is anything else you like about my country culturally ? Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted country?

They are generally there for less than 3 days as well.

For those saying that different cultures don't have different rates of sexual offenses, the stats are clear that they in some cases do.

"Two nationalities – Afghans and Eritreans – were more than 20 times more likely to account for sexual offence convictions than British citizens, according to the data."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/10/foreigners-commit-up-to-quarter-of-sex-crimes/

There are also figures from other European countries, for instance in Germany, there are 90 Afghani rape suspects per 100K inhabitants, but only 9 per 100K German rape suspects.

My examples are all from men of Middle Eastern backgrounds.

I’ve never been followed around the park by a white man. Not saying it doesn’t happen, of course it does - the difference it’s not normal in British culture.

It was however, normal when I visited Turkey many years ago. I never went back as I realised the culture was far too alien from my own.

Looking at the recent polls, the majority of Britain will be voting to sort this situation out. Thankfully.

Yes of course you’re free to continue, it’s just not going to work and I have a feeling you have more to contribute than lazy isms and phobias. Join the discussion in an honest way, you never know you might start to understand the depth of feeling and despair people are expressing.

If we never allow people to integrate, they will never have the ability or opportunity to open their minds.

FWIW I come from a family that is very multicultural. Some are practicing Muslims who wear full veil, others who are much less practicing, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians. We have heterosexual, bisexual and same sex partnerships and inter-religious marriages too. We are a mix of ethnicities. We celebrate Christmas and one of the Eid celebrations a year as a one big family. I find it racist that everybody is tarred with the same brush and people are not seen as individuals. If we saw each person as an individual rather than characterise them by their race, religion etc I’m pretty sure the world would be a better place and there would be more tolerance.

hmm, I think you are being disingenuous. Here’s the quote again:

Yep, the bit about there being no integration is in a new paragraph. So broader than just illegal migrants. You wouldn’t know someone is illegal just be looking at someone.

I don’t dislike immigrants so much, not sure where you’re getting that idea? I‘m married to one. No I very much don’t want to live in a country where immigrants make up over 16%, which is why I’ll be voting to sort that situation out. Yes there are lots of cultural things I like about the U.K., I was born here and didn’t move here for economic reasons.

But you are living in a country where 16% are immigrants, so your options are either to stay or leave.

Would you like to answer my question whether you just moved here for economic reasons or if there is anything else you like about my country culturally ? Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted country?

So you have decided that I was not born in YOUR country because I’m not white? Do you know how racist that is?

I was born here and you are not any more British than me. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Never been or lived in Oldham then. I have. There most definitely is ‘huddles’ as you put it. No significant integration at all. Huge huddles of mainly Pakistani men with dubious cultural beliefs which don’t align with mine or my family’s. I can guarantee if you’d have lived there in the 1980s you’d have moved out - like everyone else who could did. The terraced housing was cheap,and bought by ‘mainly’ Pakistani immigrants of certain areas and similar culture. It’s been a distaster for Oldham. They didn’t want to integrate as much as the pre existing residents didn’t either. It didn’t work - much as you or anyone else would have loved it to be different.

I can guarantee if you’d have lived there in the 1980s you’d have moved out - like everyone else who could did

So all the white people chose to leave and yet it is Pakistani people’s fault that they’re the only ones left?

You are the ones who chose not to integrate in this situation.

I’m certain this is a reverse. The level of detail and rational thought when you describe “your friend’s “ argument vs your own. And then admitting you live in the sticks and know nothing about it whereas your friend lives in a city and has direct experience. Why can’t you just be honest and say your own opinion?

But - even if that IS a thing in the UAE (and I have never heard of it) - the whole country of the UK is a zone for 'any other culture.' They are free to practice their religion anywhere here. And many other cultures and religions DO have buildings and facilities for their particular faith... This is one of the most free and liberal countries in the world, where cultures and religions of anyone and everyone is allowed.. We are constantly 'accommodating' other cultures. What on earth are you on about?

Why do you think half the population of the world want to come here?! It's one of the best and safest places in the world to live. And they know it. It's only over-privileged social justice warriors who have been born and raised here, who whinge about it, and post tedious threads claiming they want to leave the UK. (They never do, they know deep down that they're well off here!)

n.b. I'm not complaining about the UK accommodating other cultures by the way, just don't imply it doesn't happen! It does!

But you are living in a country where 16% are immigrants, so your options are either to stay or leave.

Not sure they are my only options, as I said I’m voting to rectify that situation.

So you have decided that I was not born in YOUR country because I’m not white? Do you know how racist that is?

You are being disingenuous and using the lazy ists and isms to stop discussion. You have clearly represented yourself as an immigrant throughout your posts and refer to non immigrants as ‘white’ people. You have decided because I was born in this country that I am white? Is that also racist?

Please engage honestly. Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted countries culture?

I totally agree.

Unfortunately there are countries such as Iran, most of the Arab states etc, who are not tolerant - especially of all of the above. And when their cultures become dominant in certain areas of our country - it leads to civil unrest and difficulties.
I don’t think it’s helpful for the government/BBC or whoever to label people racist for not wanting certain more ‘hardline’ aspects of cultures to dominate their community - fake underage marriages, marriage b/w cousins, arranged marriages etc.

I have not once suggested or implied that I am an immigrant. So why did you decide that I am an immigrant and that I wasn’t born in the UK?

Why don’t you do the decent thing and own your inherent prejudice and bias?

Please engage honestly. Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted countries culture?

And you’re still doing it. I WAS BORN HERE. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

My best friend grew up in Sparkbrook, Birmingham, and she was Muslim. She wasn't allowed to date boys, but she did — in secret. She was terrified someone from her community would find out and report her. Walking openly with a boy in Sparkbrook, a free town in the UK just wasn’t an option. So she’d travel to Wolverhampton just to see someone without fear.
Eventually, at 21, she ran away from home. Not because she hated her family or her culture, but because she wanted the freedom to live her life without constantly looking over her shoulder. She chose to move somewhere more mixed.
It’s not just about people from the outside feeling alienated — sometimes, it’s people on the inside who suffer the most.

I have been treated incredibly well within our British Culture.

I received a free education. I married who I chose to marry. I worked, started a business, enjoyed drinking with my friends in restaurants. I felt at ease discussing politics without any retribution.

Yes - our justice system is far from perfect - our laws are brilliant - world leading. The practicality of working through an underfunded legal system is woeful.
be proud of the British culture - it’s bloody good for women.