Is my best friend racist?

[Newnamefortouchysubject]

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it doesn't look like it's going great... Surely it's only a success if the majority deem it a success? Or is it up to just you to decide?!

I think she's largely chatting shit, but I have black & Muslim friends so I guess I'm not as ignorant as her.

There are a million more likenesses than differences between all cultures but some people like to dwell on the latter.

I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about.

Ah, not much interest in explaining yourself. Guessing you're still in the 'determined not to believe what I don't want to be true' camp. Else you would have come up with some sort of sensible argument. I was in the same camp, once. I learnt to listen, and reflect, and I realised I was wrong. It hurt, and I still feel the need to name change to admit it! Which I am ashamed about. Not ashamed of my post though, as I know that to be true. Why don't you try posting your own scary experiences where you've doubted multiculturalism? If you need to use a false name, that's ok. We've been taught something that's turned out to be total bollocks. That's not our fault. But it is our fault if we continue to protest it when we know it to be untrue, and when we know the harm that it's is causing.

You most certainly do understand. But you know you've lost the argument. Pitiful and uneducated response, with little respect for yourself.

Tell her it's a pity the English weren't the same when they invaded other people's countries, they certainly didn't embrace others cultures. They were the original boat people afterall

No, she is not racist. She makes some valid points.

Dude, calm down I have no idea what you mean. I’ve re-read what you quoted and I can’t see anything where I suggested culture didn’t exist? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Your friend is right. My grandparents are immigrants and I agree with her. It has nothing to do with rasicim.

The Wampanoag people, the “People of the First Light,” are responsible for saving the Pilgrims from starvation and death during the harsh winter of 1620–21. @Isitreallysohard

Such a pity some would rather shoot down boats today

Bingo - British Empire.

You haven't explained culture to me even though you think it exists. Logic isn't your strength.

Of course she is correct, I’m the daughter of an immigrant and have lived in London and Birmingham.

theres a sign in Australia that says “fit in or fuck off” ..your friend is right

I agree with her. I respect different cultures and all the differences in ways of life that they bring. However, I don’t think cultures assimilate well in practice - though I think some mutual evolution is possible if the conditions are right. If you move to live in a different culture, I think you should look to contribute to the new culture in all the main ways (learn the language, respect the laws etc). That doesn’t mean giving up your own identify (what you wish to eat, how you wish to worship and, to a degree, how you dress) but it does mean accepting that you live in a different culture and that there will be some aspects that look and feel different that you need to adjust to rather than expecting that culture to cater for every difference.

I’m going to give you one more chance to make sense. What are you trying to say/ask me?

There are a million more likenesses than differences between all cultures but some people like to dwell on the latter.

For the educated middle-classes, definitely. Those are exactly the kind of immigrants that have a positive net effect, socially and financially. And due to globalisation, they'll fit in just fine.

However, it's not realistic to think this will be the case for people with little or no education. In small amounts, again probably fine, the next generation will integrate, but when you have large numbers, the integration stops, and instead you have a ghettoisation effect, and knock-on resentment and social tensions, particularly in countries like the UK with a generous welfare system.

And I do think it's a bit naive to think there's more likeness than difference between cultures - there are literally cultures, on this planet today, that let a woman with an unsterile, rusty implement remove their eight year old daughters' genitals with no analgesia, or sell their little girls to middle-aged men as "wives".
There are countries where walking the streets as a Western woman is a stressful, unpleasant experience of leering and catcalls, at best - any "worst place to visit" thread on here names Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt etc again and again.

So what happens if very large numbers of people from those communities, not degree-educated professionals, all arrive at once - is this honestly going to be perceived as a positive by local communities, and will you perceive them as racist for not finding it positive?

What does culture mean?

Honestly I agree with her

Trying to be as vague as possible here, but where I live is very multicultural, with 2 dominant cultures that absolutely do not intergrate at all. I go to a toddler group and there’s literally one demographic on one side of the room and another on the other. It’s painfully awkward. We’re a mixed race family that fits with neither demographic which makes it more painful.

the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

Was that to the jimmigrants or ten pound poms that emigrated to Australia from the UK during the 1960s/70s?

So British culture is not a thing then. Glad you agree with me.

Ok. Great chat.

Try going to Saudi Arabia or Dubai in a bikini, you would be thrown in prison. They absolutely will not accept multiculturalism there.

It is not racist to say that other cultures living in this country should integrate and embrace our British values. It has nothing to do with skin colour.

I've never seen anyone wearing a bikini on an aeroplane @pearcrumblee