Is my best friend racist?

[Newnamefortouchysubject]

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

I agree with her and I'm an immigrant. I am from a moderate Muslim country, i believe some countries have radical culture which doesn't fit 21st century Britain and it is very naive to think otherwise.

Would you accept people into your life who believe that women are second class citizens who should be seen and not heard? How about people who think rape is fine if the victim isn't from your culture? Maybe people who think that men should be allowed multiple wives?

Your friend is right.

How refreshing, a thread on immigrants.

I agree with her.

I agree with her - flip it around, if YOU travelled to a country with very modest dress laws, would YOU walk around in a bikini thinking fuck them, I do what I want!

I highly doubt you would. I suspect you'd be of the view that when you go to a country, you respect their culture, so why doesnt this apply both ways??

I get why you think this is racism, but I also get her arguments as well.

Racist: likely, xenophobic: certainly and probably islamophobic too. What are these vastly different beliefs and values that she refers to? I would say these people of 'other cultures' all value and seek to offer human kindness, respect to others and a desire to do good. I would like to think these are part of British culture too except when I read anti-immigration stuff I really have to question what people in this country really think.

I agree with her and think you’re naive.

There is a thread on here currently from a worried Mum who has an ex husband from the Middle East who lets their six year old daughter sleep in the same bed as her uncle (the Father’s brother). The Father insists it’s the norm in his culture and yet every poster on here told the Mum to inform social services. That’s case in point isn’t it?

There is nothing racist about questioning a culture that does not fit well or respect western civilisation. The word 'Islamophobia' is thrown around too much. Yes there are racists of course but the term 'phobia' means irrational fear. There's nothing irrational about seeing certain religious groups values and beliefs and being afraid of them or recognising there is a problem. Specifically with religious groups that enable rape, and the abuse and poor treatment of women.

your friend is right.

It depends what she means.
Of course everyone has to obey the law of the country they live in but they don't have to wear the same clothes, eat the same food, or celebrate the same festivals.
Many countries including the UK have embraced other cultures, food and language and developed .
And I think we are a lot richer for it.

Your friend is a realist rather than a racist and a large part of what she says is correct. Yes, you are naive

no it’s not racism. I very much agree with these statements. Although the way in which it is written, I would say it’s your opinion rather than a ‘friend’

I agree with your friend too

Your friend is entirely sensible in her views.

No she’s not racist. Yes you are naive.

It’s racist to believe that remembering your own culture and religion contributes to racial tensions. It doesn’t. Small minded people who can’t accept that difference is ok and that their way is not automatically better are what causes racial tension.

Assuming that people from some groups are more likely to rape or treat women badly is racist.

I wouldn’t point out to this person that they are racist, I’d just stop being friends with them.

It is definitely not my opinion. I live in a small village out in the sticks and I'm not aware of anyone in the village I live in who is from a different culture or is a different race to myself.
I have no direct experience of different ethnicities, except what I hear from other people.
My friend lives 40 miles away from me in a town and her experience of living in a busy town are different to mine.

I agree with your friend. I don't think she is racist.

I agree with your friend - her view is not racist

Your friend is correct and not racist just factual

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to write.

We have to stop being idealistic and shamed for being realistic.
Of course it would be bloody lovely if everyone could get along and live peacefully integrated.
Is it possible? Sometimes, yes.
Is it realistic, all the time across the board? No.
Allow people to express that without being labelled a racist.

https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/11/societies-that-treat-women-badly-are-poorer-and-less-stable

“A woman who drives a car will be killed,” says Sheikh Hazim Muhammad al-Manshad. He says it matter-of-factly, without raising his voice. The unwritten rules of his tribe, the al-Ghazi of southern Iraq, are clear. A woman who drives a car might meet a man. The very possibility is “a violation of her honour”. So her male relatives will kill her, with a knife or a bullet, and bury the body in a sand dune.

Yes of course. Eg. Men from Iran have a totally lovely view of women. 👀🙄

I don't think she is racist. I agree with her point of view. If you move to another country you need to integrate, learn to speak the native language and understand the customs and culture of that country. If that means you have to make compromises, then so be it.

And this equally applies to Brits living on the Costa Del Sol, unable to speak Spanish, as it does to anyone of any colour coming to live here.

Afghanistani men also a lovely respect for women. Nothing to worry about.

• Taliban decrees seek to silence women in public, bar them from education above the age of 12, enforce head-to-toe coverings and restrict their travel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0l16424w1pt

I agree with her. Just look at British ex pat communities around the world - we form our own little ‘safe’ bubbles and often don’t fully integrate into the adopted country for the same reasons. People often gravitate toward their own cultures or at least something similar. Trying to force radically different cultures or worldviews together just doesn’t work. There’s nothing racist about holding that view.