This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

Maybe we should we add soliciting to murder to the list of capital offenses.

@Sirzy Are you against having all killing? If the UK send troops to support one side in a war do you object to that?

Surely most people are against the idea of troops being killed but that is sadly sometimes a necessary part of war. Ideally there would be no wars but as this thread shows some people get a thrill out of people being killed and for some that extends to pointless wars!

You have zero idea about how prison works so why comment on it and make yourself look ignorant

’how do they normally manage them’ …. Nobody is in those conditions for long. No U.K. prison keeps people segregated for longer than necessary do you realise all prison staff have a duty of care, no matter who/what the crime is.

every prisoner has the same.food/exercise. And they have human rights.

It’s arguably worse as we should expect the state and community as a whole to act according to a higher standard than a violent criminal.

Criminals give into base emotions like anger and vengeance and have no regard for the rights of others.

One poster was pretty honest early on and described her wish for the death penalty as bloodlust. Others have posted lurid fantasies about instant justice. We demean ourselves by giving into this. There are ways of dealing with these individuals that don’t degrade us as a society, so the DP is not only not needed but should be avoided.

"murder is wrong. State sanctioned murder is just as wrong" That's what you said but now you're saying that sometimes State sanctioned murder is necessary? You can't have it both ways.

It's not feasible because that's not how the law works. There's no point us continuing this exchange as I view your opinions on this as barbarism and we're never going to agree. There are plenty of countries in the world where you can sate your desire for people to be treated as valueless, perhaps you should move there instead.

I'm still waiting to find out about countries that execute within hours of conviction.

China. They are believed to have the highest amount of judicial killing in the world. People don't have human rights, so they have no right to a defence. They're shot in the head and their family have to pay for the execution including the bullet. I don't think they're killed within hours, but they have no right to appeal.

Yes, and figures for executions aren't made available either. They're believed to have the highest rate of judicial killing in the world
I was looking this up last night. In 2024, 87% of reported executions took place in just two countries - Iran and Saudi Arabia. The only country in Europe that retains the death penalty is Belarus.

Yes of course they are different. My point is, we sanction killing in certain scenarios, so sanctioning the execution of our worst criminals isn't too far removed in my opinion.

What you call 'revenge' many would call justice.

Yes heinous does mean that. Yes I have said the cut and dried cases are often (not always) the most heinous.

What I haven't done is linked the 'strength of evidence to the severity of the crime' as you have suggested. There are heinous crimes that remain unsolved due to a lack of evidence, it doesn't make them any less heinous. Nor does it mean crimes that have an abundance of evidence are automatically worse.

So yes, I'd say you are twisting my meaning.

There's a huge difference between the two. One is to save lives right there and then, the other barbaric revenge.

and I'm calling it "revenge" as that's what it is, it's not justice.

It seems that @GreenGully and some other posters on this thread want to adopt the regimes of the countries I mentioned in my last post.

What is justice?

I agree there is a difference. I haven't disputed that. Regarding the revenge vs justice we will just have to disagree but that is the crux of it really isn't it....
Whether a person feels it is justified or not.

When I consider how much a prisoner costs, how many continue their violence whilst inside, plus own beliefs on 'an eye for an eye' I feel it is justified.

Of course I accept others feel differently and do appreciate the wrongful conviction argument. I just feel that could be avoided nowadays, hence my feeling of execution being an option in cases that leave no doubt at all, such as Axel in Southport or Rose West for example.

What are your feelings about Lucy Letby?

What on earth is your meaning then? These are the points we seem to agree on: 1. There are very bad crimes. 2. There are crimes which are easy to prove. 3. These may or may not be the same crimes.

What point are you making with that? And why didn't you just say it instead of saying one is usually the other, which rather implies you're, you know, linking the two concepts?

Let's be honest - you're arguing black is white.

I feel like it's demeaning to engage in this drivel any further. It's just frustrating to see how utterly confident and lacking in any doubt those posters are who are pushing for extreme solutions are. I have no doubt the death penalty would return on the basis of a popular referendum and it would be down to nonsense like this.

To be honest I don't know enough about the case to make an informed decision, but my feeling is that she is guilty after seeing her diary extracts which was effectively an admission.

Many people are now suggesting she is a victim of unfortunate circumstances. I haven't looked into the reasons for that.

So you would have been happy for her to be executed after her trial?

'What on earth is your meaning then?' I think my meaning was clear. Many of the cut and dry cases are particularly heinous, it was an observation that I have made, not something that needed a forensic analysis or picking a part.

'I feel like it's demeaning to engage in this drivel any further.' I concur.

Absolutely not, because it isn't what I would call a cut and dry case.

Absolutely heartbreaking 💔 he was only two weeks old.
how did he get away with that in a hospital? He’s disgusting

So. 3 verdicts. Innocent, Guilty and Very Guilty.

I believe it's innocent, guiltyish and caught red handed.