This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

Again, why are you assuming I saw a programme? I never mentioned programmes. I am talking about family victim statements. On their own social media. And in their own press statements.

Also, I think you are confusing closure, with justice. They're two different things.

no. But documentary makers manipulate what is shown.

so if ten families are interviewed then it stands to reason that not all statements will be included, and if the documentary maker wants to arrive at a particular point of view then they will include those statements which represent that point of view.

It’s basic journalism.

This is such an unintelligent, arrogant and offensive response.

Your self-selected families of victims on Youtube are unlikely to be lying. This doesn’t mean that all victims’ families everywhere would agree. Surely you can see that?

And attacking PYK in this way is just low.

She isn’t saying that none of them feels closure. She isn’t accusing them of lying. She is saying that your Youtube “research” doesn’t represent a universal truth.

You, however, seem to be suggesting that she is lying, or wrong somehow, about the opinions of someone she knows in real life.

You appear to be blinded by your fury.

Weren’t you the poster who originally said no family had ever said they didn’t get closure: ‘Not one’.

I would imagine it was that level of certainty based on very little that prompted a response from someone that has unfortunately had some experience to point out that you didn’t really know what you were talking about.

You’ve also repeatedly hectored that poster, incorrectly saying she has accused others of ‘lying’ (very emotive term), telling her she’s ignorant and patronisingly telling her to think about what she’s saying.

You seem to be presenting yourself as some sort of crusader for victims’ rights, but you might want to think yourself about the needlessly aggressive tone you’ve taken on here towards someone who sadly has some first-hand insight into victims’ experiences.

Lol you are making assumptions. None of my research is from 'youtube'. But from the actual families statements themselves.

I was talking about the death penalty and the victims families in America.

That poster right off the bat said I didn't know what I was talking about, and was ignorant. They were rude, patronising and very aggressive.

Perhaps you should read this OP. The death sentence is barbaric. No one in their right mind would want to bring it back. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/29/the-sun-does-shine-review-anthony-ray-hinton

Wherever you saw this, is immaterial, its self selecting, the families who found "closure" post, the ones that don't, well, don't.

Its also a bit odd, as most people executed in the US have been awaiting their sentence for many years, even decades.

Anyway, as pp have said, the death penatly shouldn't be introduced because of the victims families wishes.

TBH the more i read through this thread, the more i think maybe we have got the balance right with Whole life Orders.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter really in the context of this discussion. Sentencing is not, and should no be about what the victims want.

I agree, yes, it is self selecting. But that also means PyongyangKipperbang's testimony is self-selecting, too.

Anyway, I'm out of here as I can't seem to make myself understood and I'm feeling attacked. It's been a good discussion though.

Way to miss the point. You have not seen statements from all victims’ families. You have only seen the statements that support your view.

The fact that you have not seen statements from families that do not support your view does not mean that all families support your view.

And I would suggest that the sources of the statements - YouTube documentaries or some such - have cherrypicked the statements that supported the view of the filmmaker.

Ooh so you’ve been and spoken to them? You personally?

no? Didn’t think so.

Different families will feel differently. That’s normal and you can’t generalise.

but a justice system shouldn’t decide upon punishment based on family wishes. It should be based upon justice. Otherwise you could have two identical crimes punished differently because of the families wishes and how would that be fair?

I don’t see why not, other countries do it for far lesser crimes.
If not the death penalty it should be solitary- they should never see daylight again, bread and water as sustenance.

@CurlewKate You don’t know much about the prison system do you. They’re off shagging and all sorts- they definitely have lives!

If not the death penalty it should be solitary- they should never see daylight again, bread and water as sustenance.

How easy do you imagine it would be to recruit and keep warders if that was our system? Would you fancy looking after a load of violent criminals who have literally nothing to lose by killing you?

Spot on!

mumsnetters can be so naive. Silly sweeping statements but don’t think through to the detail

Not her as we don’t know. Rose West/Fred, Levi Bellfield Hindley- what was the point in keeping her alive. I just don’t get it. Maybe just the serial killers then.

@Internaut How do they normally manage them? They comply because they get a ham sandwich and cuppa?!
If they’re contained, one to a cell with only a tray to pass they’re bread on how are they getting close enough to kill a warden?

Besides I’d rather kill them.

But at the time of her conviction there was little doubt in most peoples minds. Certainly not in the juries minds. Some people want conviction and death the next day so that makes mistakes even more likely to occur.

If it were to be considered you would need a very robust system for appeals and as has been pointed out many times that costs a lot more than life imprisonment

Ah, okay.

So killing people isn't wrong. It's all about context.

No it's not wrong. No line in the sand is needed. Death penalty for the worst/most heinous crimes is needed. Your argument is flawed. Executing a psychopathic killed is not the same as the killer murdering someone in cold blood. I find it farcical and worrying in equal measures that you think the two are even CLOSE to the same.

But we did “know” about Lucy Letby. There are plenty on here who would have had her dead by now…

Well done, you got it.! 👏 Give yourself a pat on the back from me!

So some murders are more acceptable than others? We can employ people to be murders and that’s ok but it’s wrong when someone murders? I just don’t get the logic.

muder is wrong. State sanctioned murder is just as wrong.