This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

And 3. It’s not what a civilized society does. Civilized societies don’t go in for judicial
killing.

If someone was serving a true whole life sentence and would never be released then I'd suggest education's less of a priority since they'd never be in a position to put it to much use

Social care's a bit more complex and it depends on what's meant by the term, but for me it certainly wouldn't include such things as counsellors or any social facility beyond the very simplest

As PPs have mentioned there are worse things than a quick death, and I'd be entirely comfortable with the very worst offfenders experiencing them

Well the justice system could make it however they wanted because it’s not a thing here so they could tailor it for those cases where it is cut and dry. Then there’s no miscarriage of justice and we can all be satisfied. You sympathisers that live on rainbow land and us the realists that want proper justice!

Please don’t say “sympathisers”.It’s incredibly offensive.

I don’t care 🤷🏻‍♀️

Actually we have had this discussion a few times at work and none of us would want to work in an environment where people may/may not be subject to the DP. It’s not what we signed up for, not part of our establishments values and not on any of our contracts

we are already incredibly short staffed. I’m guessing the MOJ would need to re write contracts, re/hire….higher wage?

Its not about sympathy, its about the fact that the death penalty achieves nothing.

It doesnt lower the crime rate (as proved by many studies over the years) and in many cases it would give "easy out" to these people. As PP's have said, many evil people have committed suicide as they didnt want to live out their days in prison as punishment for their crimes. And of course, again as PP's have pointed out, miscarriages of justice still happen. There is a huge question mark over the safety of Lucy Letby's conviction for example, the fat lady is a long way from singing on that one. Ruth Ellis was hanged 22 days after her conviction but evidence that came to light later showed that she was the victim of abuse at the hands of the man she killed.

As I posted above, the person who murdered my adults childs best friend was seeking their own death. Their actions against the best friend was in order to get that. So when the parents were offered the option to demand the death penalty (legal in the country that the crime and trial happened in) they refused. The punishment is the the murderer NOT getting the death penatly, which is what the murderer wanted.

We differ on what 'proper justice' is. Like I said, you don't understand how the justice system works however I find it difficult to believe that you think the law works like that. Most people understand that everyone is equal under the law.

Clearly

You mentioned Fred West.

He saved the hangman a rope, by taking his own life. Where is the justice there? He wanted death, and made sure it happened. Where is the restitution? Did it bring back the lives he took?

No, it gave him the way to escape justice and punishment.

For the kind of people you mention death is their chosen alternative to being made to face and pay for their crimes. Giving them what they want makes you their friend not me!

It is interesting that even Albert Pierrepoint who had a better insight into capital punishment than most questioned it towards the end of his life. I think he is possibly misquoted when people claim he opposed it, but he certainly questioned what his career had actually achieved.

It’s not about stats.

It would be one less on the streets, it would be closure for their families.

I’m not Qing about Lucy Letby, I’m taking about the ones where it’s been proved beyond a shadow of any doubt whatsoever!
How much does it cost to protect these people from being killed in prison.

Fair enough. I was pretty sure that you’re not interested in anyone’s opinion but your own.

Careful, your ignorance is showing!

Firstly, most obviously, they are not on the streets.....thats kind of the point of prison.

Secondly, I can tell you first hand that the death of the attacker provides no closure whatsoever. The fact that you can say that with confidence shows me that you dont have a fucking clue what you are talking about. Your knee jerk reaction proves it.

Further........what about evil people who are caught "bang to rights" by your standards, who kill themselves. Is that justice? Did that provide closure?

And who decides what has been proved without a shadow of a doubt? Derek Bentley was convicted without a shadow of a doubt. As was (as I mentioned) Ruth Ellis.

Many families of victims where the attacker was given the death penalty say it's closure. You read these cases in America, almost of them (unless the body location wasn't revealed) say it's closure. I've never heard of one say they had no closure. So your post is completely at odds with victims families' testimonies.

Further........what about evil people who are caught "bang to rights" by your standards, who kill themselves. Is that justice? Did that provide closure?

The victims families would say it is. Either the state kills him (them) or they kill themselves.

Same result, they're dead. Closure.

How many do you know personally?

Less than me, I guarantee it.

When the death sentence was abolished, we were told it would be replaced with life sentences and life would mean life. Now we have "life sentences" where criminals are released after only a few years.

I have followed true crime and the DP in America for decades. I have yet to come across one single victim family who say they haven't got closure from the perp being put to death.

Not....one.

You don't seem to have ever had any experience with victims families. None at all.

I've worked in high security prisons. He will wish that he had never been born. Inmates will get to him one way or another, and the prison officers may not have heard/seen what was going on before he is seriously damaged. After that, he will probably be moved to solitary confinement. That won't work either. It is possible that he will try to kill himself. Usually, doesn't work. Too much varied methods of supervision.

You could say the same about the legalisation of euthanasia in the UK and look where that’s heading…

You couldnt be more wrong

Yes, let’s hold hands and blame society …again. Anything to avoid holding a grown adult responsible for their own choices!

What are you alluding to?

Then educate me.