This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

There isn’t a link between strength of evidence and how serious a crime is as far as I know. This is a completely made up assertion.

Be that as it may, and like it or not, we aren’t about to see the whole conceptual framework of conviction and sentencing changed to accommodate this new category of ‘definitely guilty’. A category that would make a mockery of the justice system and is virtually impossible to outline.

If the death penalty returns, it is a possibly for all those found guilty of a crime that is in scope. Anyone in favour of it needs to be on board with the idea that it is an absolute inevitability that innocent people would die.

Don't be ridiculous.

Very true!

but you’ll get the usual mumsnetters saying they will do it etc etc.

Because the law is about more than “did you do it”

Justice has to be applied properly, rules have to be followed, a trial has to be fair, mental capacity needs to be taken into account . People who obviously did something have been freed because of a technicality of the law, paperwork not being filed, juries not being selected fairly etc. It’s not good that they are freed, but keeping the justice system free of error is incredibly important for us all. If you want the law to be applied fairly to you, you have to be prepared for it to be applied fairly to people who have done despicable things.

You've lost me a this point. I pointed out you were mocking someone's spelling when it was a clear typo.

You said something along the lines of 'see people make mistakes'

I have asked 'AND?' As in what is your point and how is it relevant to compare a typo to a murderer being convicted or not.

There’s no “did you do it” though. There doesn’t even need to be a jury to decide if they are guilty or not. Because they are 100%.

I never said there was.

@naturalcrackle111 the “they are unwell” insult is both pathetic and really nasty. I will report your post but if you’re wondering why it was reported, that’s why.

I'm still not convinced. If nothing else, if someone is executed they won't be able to reoffend.

And basic understanding of human nature means that punishments often work. If I knew I would be beaten (corporal punishment) for jaywalking or something then I certainly wouldn't do it.

The threat of punishment doesn't work for crimes of passion or insanity or sheer desperation, but otherwise it certainly plays a role.

If there were no punishments for anything at all, crime would certainly increase. If people knew they would only get a day in prison for stealing a million pounds, I think a lot of people would try it. If people knew there would be zero consequences for rape, rates would increase.

So yeah, countries like Singapore manage to ensure low crime rates through the use of very harsh punishments (alongside high gdp, relatively low inequality, a strong focus on education etc).

A debate can certainly be had on the morality of it and there other factors at play as well, but I do think punishment is effective.

You responded to say that cut and dried cases are ‘usually the most heinous’.

What am I missing?

Yes I did.

That isn't the same as suggesting there is 'a link between strength of evidence and how serious a crime is.'

Absolutely not.

Odd flex but ok. I’m well aware of what people have in prison, I just don’t consider any of it a comfort or luxury unlike some on the thread.

Mobile phones are illegal in prison and your DD is also breaking the law by communicating with someone using a mobile phone in prison.

It quite literally is.

Cut and dried - goes to the question of how strong the evidence is.

Heinous - goes to the question of severity.

’usually the most’ - creates a connection between the two concepts.

I mean, all the objective evidence shows that the severity of a punishment is not a deterrent for violent crime, but if you’re ’not convinced’ then let’s ignore all of that.

A cat A prison wont be luxurious but it is a whole lot better than their dead victims have or the pain the families go through long after their release.

Many prisoners will have access to phones even in their cells, because its thought that contact with family etc cuts reoffending, which if true should be encouraged.

Not a flex just stating facts. And it doesn’t matter what you consider comfort. The bottom line of it is that people think prison is hard and a deterrent when in fact it not.

If you can tell me how the death penalty wound help pensioners have a better life, I’m all ears.

I have no idea whether or why West has or hasn’t changed her name, but I know for sure none of us are going to a magical place in the sky so I really don’t care either way.

I don’t want to live in a country that justifies killing people, because then we’re the same as the people who justify killing people.

At no point has anyone on the thread, including me, said prison is a deterrent. People have different definitions of hard of course, but living in prison is certainly harder than being dead.

I am firmly against the DP but this case really made me waiver on the topic.

You can use statistics to support almost any point you'd like to make. That's not to say we should dismiss statistics and actual facts, but we should look deeper into where the numbers are coming from without accepting everything at face value. A sample size of 10 (in your previous example) means nothing statistically.

We should also use common sense and the evidence of our own eyes. I've asked you before - why is Singapore so safe? If you can provide an alternative explanation, I'm open to it.

Safe from whom?

I haven’t even bothered reading your thread OP. No civilised society should ever have the death penalty, no matter how heinous the crime. Let’s face it, life without parole is basically the death penalty anyway 🤷‍♀️ To me, it doesn’t matter if they only execute one wrongly convicted person every 100 years, that’s one too many. A posthumous pardon means bugger all.