This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

You’re mixing things up. Guilty and not guilty are a binary assessment of whether the accused person committed the crime.

If found guilty, they’ll then go on to be sentenced. A whole life order is one possible sentence.

It’s unconscionable to have a category of ‘guilty’ that casts doubt on the sentenced person’s guilt from the outset. To all intents and purposes, if it’s found that a person ‘did it’ they must be treated accordingly. That would have to include the death penalty if it were reintroduced. Appeals are available to challenge findings and sentences. This is the correct approach, not to introduce doubt about guilt on judgement.

I am generally against the death penalty, but for some criminals/crimes it is hard to see what society has to gain by locking people away for the rest of their life, or indeed locking them away for a certain time then releasing them back into society.

Some crimes are just too horrific.

A terrible tragic case but as you've highlighted there, forensic science has advanced massively. Also, in the case referred to by OP there's absolutely no doubt about his guilt.

Neither is the death penalty. People who commit crimes like this are not thinking about the consequences.

You'll have to explain?

It would be a sub category of sentence, like a whole life order, it is not casting doubt on the verdict.

So if the judge deemed a whole life order was appropriate, which in the vast majority of murder convictions it is not, he/she would then have the option of the death penalty, subject to appeal as is the case now.

It’s a horrendous story, but the death penalty is legalised, state-sanctioned murder that will and should never be brought back. We’re better than that.

Utter, utter waste of space and a vile human being, but I don’t agree with the death penalty.

For lots of reasons, but honestly, he will suffer far more in prison than being executed. People like Fred West knew that.

I don't think the state should have the power to end people's lives, but I agree cases like this one really test that belief.

Sentencing does not consider how probable it is that a crime was committed. It is carried out on the basis that it did. Sentencing does take into account the category of crime and mitigating and aggravating factors.

Your whole life example is all about the severity of the crime and nothing to do with the accused person being more likely to be factually guilty than someone who gets a shorter sentence.

What some people on here are proposing is that an additional sentence - death - is available for some crimes, but only where we really know the sentenced person is guilty. That can only be logically possible where there are crimes we tacitly admit may not have been committed by the ‘guilty’ person.

Dear oh dear oh dear... As soon as somebody starts talking about 'liberal leftie hand wringers' I know I'm going to be reading a load of nonsense. Thank you - you did not disappoint.

Sally Clark
Angela Cannings
Donna Anthony

Just 3 of the many reasons why we should not bring back the death penalty

Very well said. The irony of thinking you are virtue signalling by talking about killing and/or torturing another human is lost on some

Surely there are cases where, despite a guilty verdict, there's a lot of concern raised about the safety of the conviction eg Lucy Letby? The case cited by the OP has no such doubts.

Do you think the death penalty would be a deterrent? Look at the murder rates in the states of the USA that have the death penalty v those that don’t. The murder rate in states without the death penalty is consistently lower than those with it. The murder rate in the USA is significantly higher than the uk.

The death penalty simply doesn’t act as a deterrent.

No intelligence needed. There are evil people and scumbags in this world. There always have been and there always will be. No amount of rehabilitation or lessons on how not to torture new born babies or rape and murder women will change them.

I would far rather be a leftie liberal and have an actual brain, than be somebody who reads the Daily Mail.

With you OP. It would help with overcrowding a save taxpayers money. Axel Rudakubana is a prime example of someone who should be snuffed out.

Basing our laws and punishments on outlier cases is bad policy.

so no to death penalty. Yes to a whole life order.

Regardless of the source does it make this story untrue?

No.

Except nobody is saying that, are they? No.

So what is the relevance of mentioning the source?

Nobody should be going to prison at all where there are doubts about their guilt.

We cannot have a system of guilty - probably guilt - definitely guilty, because it is impossible to justify punishing people in the second category with the loss of their liberty.

It also opens up a whole new front of potential suffering for victims’ families.

The system we have - guilty in the absence of reasonable doubt, guilty people sentenced accordingly and recourse to challenge judgments and sentences - is the best we have.

Would you be willing for your child to be executed for a crime he or she did not commit?

If your answer is, 'No,' then you cannot support the death penalty. All systems are fallible. There will always be mistakes. If we have the death penatly, innocent people will be executed. They will be somebody's child or loved one.

Could you please provide evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent?

I’d be in favour of bringing the death penalty back for cases where there is zero chance that the jury might have got it wrong. No circumstantial evidence.
Lucy Letby.. No because even though I’m 99% sure she’s guilty there’s still room for doubt.
Roy Whiting.. No room for doubt so I’ve got no problem with the idea of him being given the death penalty. The same goes for the despicable scum who murdered Arthur Hughes and Star Hobson. In this case it seems black and white I wouldn’t be against the idea of death penalty.
I don’t know much about prisons and how they are run but I do remember reading that we don’t have a lot of prisoners with whole life sentences, Rose West is one and apparently she has changed her name, carpeted her cell and spends her days reading and watching nature documentaries. I think if true it’s pretty shocking considering her crimes that she is living with any sort of comfort.