This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

The end result is the same.

There was Sally Clark who was jailed after she lost 2 babies to SIDS. She was a solicitor and daughter of a policeman so was horribly abused in prison and drank herself to death after her release. Do you think the trauma to the rest of her grieving family would have been more or less if she'd been executed?

Why would I subject myself to watching this? Why are you watching this?

Well thats quite a sweeping statement.

This is horrendous whatever the age.. like I said previously, where do we draw the line? Who decides? What makes one death worse than another? There’s still a grieving family. What makes one person’s loss greater than anothers? What if the murderer was abused, had an unimaginable childhood? What if the murderer is 14? There’s too many variables. The need for revenge is not a good place to start.

Have you ever delved into why your views on criminal justice align with the violent criminals who perpetrated this attack?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Anthony

others as well

@bluewanda You want revenge because that 'feels good'? Isn't that the sort of behaviour you'd like to prevent?

If the other prisoners attacked and killed him, I would think it served him right. I still don't think that the UK should bring back the death penalty. The countries that still have the death penalty and use it the most aren't countries that I would want to emulate, e.g. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran and the USA.

There have been numerous miscarriages of justice over the years that would have resulted in innocent people being killed by the state if the UK had still had the death penalty. It's barbaric and we are better than that as a country.

The more vengeful you feel =/= the more you care and the better person you are.

At least the death penalty debate here has meant we haven’t had the typical in-prison torture thread where a certain type of poster competes with increasingly grotesque fantasies to prove how outraged and morally upstanding they are.

Er no! No thanks because every attack on a prisoner has to be broken up…. So that’s me and my colleagues having to wade in and risk our neck EVERY SINGLE TIME … and it means prisoners holding and secreting improvised weapons which again, impact on our safety on the wings

people don’t think of these things when they lazily call for ‘prison justice’ though

This is always my first thought too

Death is such an easy way out for these scumbags, why would you hand it to them?

Yes, it’s horrific. He should rot in jail.

A state being able to kill its citizens is also horrific.

That's really sad about Sally Clark, I hadn't read about it before.

Then what you're looking for is not justice, it's vengeance. That's a dark and slippery slope.

Nothing will ever persuade me to support a return of the death penalty. Even if this was my child, I wouldn't change my mind. For every pro-argument I believe a long life in a prison cell is worse than dying sooner. You see some serial killers end their lives rather than face many years in a cage, e.g. Harold Shipman and Fred West, etc. Death is a way out.
One of the arguments I see is financial. I looked into this and saw that by the time any death sentence is carried out (usually decades later), and multiple expensive appeals have been heard. It would have been cheaper to keep the monster in a cage for the rest of their natural lives than the cost in the US of putting a prisoner to death..

Why is it vengeance to want someone like Ian Huntley to be executed? he took 2 young girls lives, or Robert Black or Levi Bellfield?

There is no redemption, no forgiveness, they live out their lives very often taunting the families by refusing to say why or where they hide their victims or even if they killed them or not.

The DP certain isn't going to deter these people b i really don't see why they shouldn't also know the terror of knowing their life is about to end, it is no different than wanting them to be locked up for life.

If we re introduced the death penalty, it could be done where only the most heinous and clear cut of crimes would be punished by death.

Yes here is the argument about who does the execution and encouraging them but you could equally apply that to people who take delight in seeing someone locked up and join the prison service/police so they can inflict misery on prisoners.

You’re (deliberately?) misunderstanding me. The issue of the death penalty is complex, not whether or not it happened.

It’s a horrific crime, of course it is, but that doesn’t mean the conversations about the death sentence suddenly become simple. And the Daily Heil’s focus on him being a cross dresser (as though that is somehow as outrageous as murder) is a classic example of their manipulation of readers to produce gut reactions to complex issues.

Killing this one horrible man won’t prevent other crimes; it won’t stop the drugs problems we have in the country; it won’t fix a highly flawed child protection system or solve the poverty that often plays a part in the formation of characters and crimes like this. It’s really not as simple as immediate emotional reaction might want it to be.

It’s a really hard case, he was involved in other convictions in the UK but also his testimony and the oft used “meadows law” helped convict more than 70 women in Australia. One woman Kathleen only had her conviction quashed recently after spending two decades in jail. Described as Australia’s biggest miscarriage of justice.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/14/australia/australia-folbigg-murder-convictions-quashed-intl-hnk

I agree @bluewanda , but you're always going to get liberal leftie hand wringers on threads like this. Yeah there were miscarriages of justice in the UK when execution was last a thing, but we have much more sophisticated systems now, forensics, DNA testing etc, so the chances of this happening is very remote.

And they wouldn't be 'executed' the next day after being given the death sentence. They'd go on death row, like in America. For a minimum of 5 years, so if they DO think they have been 'wronged' they have time to prove their innocence. The death sentence is still a thing in around half the states in America... When was the last miscarriage of justice (after someone had been executed there?) Has that even happened to anyone who has been jailed in the past 25 years or so?

Scum like the twat who beat and smashed his baby so badly that he died, need to be taken from this world. They don't deserve oxygen. I'm sure the people disagreeing with the death sentence would have a different attitude if one of their loved ones was murdered in cold blood by someone.

Yes I know some people think 'death' is too good for some people, and they should be made to 'suffer' in jail for life, but the fact is that some prisoners have a better, easier, more comfortable life than some pensioners! (And some younger people!)

Let's not pretend scum like this creature will end up in Guantánamo Bay... (Though they would deserve it!) They end up in a warm and comfortable place with a TV, computers, home comforts, 3 meals a day, games and activities, and opportunities to learn and train, and plenty of smokes and drugs!

The miscarriage of justice argument is just whataboutery.

Also Angela Cannings.

Not to derail the thread but I remember it clearly: Sally Clark was not horribly abused by other women in prison, she actually said on her release how much she’d been supported by other women and that it had surprised her to have made acquaintances and even close friends. I think it was obvious that she wasn’t guilty and women would be supportive of the fact she was bereaved, not guilty.

This kind of argument makes no sense - you don't agree with the death penalty but you'd be happy for him to be murdered in jail?

About 4 death row prisoners are exonerated every year in the US. There are obviously many more where there are doubts over the conviction, but they are executed before exoneration.

There are no computers in prisons in the UK, and your idea of a warm and cosy place where there are games and fun is frankly bizarre.

There is so much sweeping generalisation and misinformation there I simply don't have the time or energy to address it.

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