To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

@nomas
@Voxon presents you with excellent points, knowledge & fair argument - and you bullishly just ignore all of it. The fact that you can’t take on, consider or acknowledge any of it speaks volumes and actually undermines your points.

Beggars belief that you think the atrocities of 7 October was a genocide but the massacre of 60,000 Palestinians isn’t.

7 October - deliberate targetting of civilians because they were Jews.

Conflict in Gaza - Hamas deliberately embedded in an extremely populated urban area, resulting in civilian deaths, however civilians not the intended target. Not a genocide. Also how many of that number are Hamas fighters? If you look at stats that don't actually come from Hamas, a considerable percentage.

Regurgitating IDF propaganda is not 'knowledge and fair argument'.

You/Voxon are asking us to believe you and the IDF over independent media and the ICJ, that's ridiculous.

Which countries? Living openly?

Which countries? Living openly?

Iran. If you're gay you can be transed including full surgery, or hung from a crane. So progressive, castration or death.

I don’t treat anything as gospel - propaganda is everywhere, from all sides, including the mainstream media.

That’s exactly why I make a point of reading news and opinions across the spectrum. Do
you?

Many of the sources or arguments you're relying on could just as easily be labeled propaganda too.
All we can really do is stay open, consider other perspectives seriously, and weigh them honestly against our own views. It’s not about blind belief, it’s about critical thinking.

Of course it only targets Hamas. That's why they've restricted the entry of formula milk right? It's well known that terrorists survive and thrive on Aptimal.

Of course it only targets Hamas. That's why they've restricted the entry of formula milk right? It's well known that terrorists survive and thrive on Aptimal.

According to Israel, the aid is there and there's been a distrubution fuck-up. It's a political choice, beyond that, who you want to believe.

I’ve said it before, time and time again.
I don’t take any single source of information as absolute truth.
However, the fact is there’s a lot of debate around whether this claim is accurate.
Much of it seems to stem from a story about one doctor having a few cans of baby formula confiscated at the border.
That said, the full truth is often hard to pin down in situations like this. There certainly seems to be a deficit in baby formula, especially specialised for pre term babies.

If it’s difficult to sit with the uncertainty, it’s uncomfortable, and not knowing for sure can be deeply unsettling. But it’s really important to question everything and check your bias.

If it’s difficult to sit with the uncertainty, it’s uncomfortable, and not knowing for sure can be deeply unsettling. But it’s really important to question everything and check your bias.

This is such a good point. I find I'm sometimes almost pushed into sounding like I'm hardline on believing everything eg Israel says, but it's not that I believe everything they say as gospel either, I'm just countering the other point of view that is presented with great certainty.

What I have seen is that there is vast amounts of aid piled up and clearly there's been a distribution error. And that error might well be with the Israelis, although they say it's the UN.
What I do think though is that people are ascribing malice to a logistical mess.

‘According to Israel’ fairly sure that anything that comes after those words is going to be utter and complete bullshit regardless of the context.

And there we have it.

One thing that really stands out in this thread, and seems to be a consistent pattern, is the contrast in how people approach discussion.
Those who are more neutral, and here at least, who lean toward the Israeli/Jewish perspective (since it feels like today’s discourse forces us to “pick a side”), tend to express themselves with more openness, thoughtfulness, and a willingness to engage without resorting to dogma.
In contrast, there are others who respond with aggression and repetition (in this thread’s case, often those arguing against the initial OP and questioning ‘anti semitism’) relying heavily on slogans and emotionally charged language, without much room for reflection or nuanced dialogue.

That would be convenient for you but it’s not true. The thread is littered with people saying any criticism of Israel is not legitimate. Example attached.

That would be convenient for you but it’s not true. The thread is littered with people saying any criticism of Israel is not legitimate. Example attached.

Why are you quoting yourself like you're some sort of authority?
Also you've not actually responded to the post you've quoted, just had some sort of conversation with yourself.

I thought similarly @SpaceRaccoon but if you click on the image shared it expands and you can see more and what I think @nomas is talking about.

Ofcourse there will be inconsistencies, what I say is not absolute. But my experience from the past few years of discussion is generally (emphasis on the generally, as in not all the time) what I described in my last post.
I can only tell you my experience and opinion, and you can only shout yours back.

I thought similarly but if you click on the image shared it expands and you can more

Ah, I see what you mean. I'd disagree with that poster then, as of course every critisism of Israel isn't antisemitism. Hell, Andrew Fox, who I follow on X, is currently being pretty scathing about how the IDF have handled aid distribution, for instance. I'm I'm sure there is plenty of completely valid critisism that could be leveled at Netanyahu etc.

As I said, it's more the bad faith interpretations - the bloodthisty baby killers stuff, the assumption that Israel seeks to kill as many civilians as possible on purpose, or seeks to kill babies.

.

I've not shouted at anyone and I think there is hyperbole on both sides. I do think it's a shame OP's thread has become about Israel/Palestine. I might be wrong but I don't think that's what she wanted. She might be better off asking for asking at the outset that all talk is to be about the UK only.

I wasn’t referring to you specifically there @nomas - I see how it read like that.

There is definitely hyperbole on both sides. We agree there.

My observation is similar to what @SpaceRaccoon just described.

Please stop it with your nonsense. People on here taking about complex and nuanced. Sitting on their settees denying a genocide playing out in front of their eyes by the Israeli government agains the people of Palestine. Babies and children orphaned, mutated and starved. I am only glad that our grandfathers (some came home, some didn’t) did not question their obligation to fight the Nazis when they were carrying out genocide against the Jews else there would have been even more deaths. My grandfather did not come home and my husbands grandfather who was in a stalag for the whole war as a POW never recovered mentally or physically.

Please stop it with your nonsense. People on here taking about complex and nuanced. Sitting on their settees denying a genocide playing out in front of their eyes by the Israeli government agains the people of Palestine.

I don't think there is a genocide. That doesn't mean I'm denying that many civilians have died, and they are presently suffering. But do I think Israel has the intention of wiping out all Palestinians? No. I don't think the motivation is there.

I’m relaying my lived experience as someone who has only known 1 grandparent, as the rest died in the genocide.

As @SpaceRaccoon says. We aren’t denying there is a tragic loss of many lives.

Btw here's a good example of how propaganda spreads. Bernie Sanders, surely a highly credible source, posts an upsetting image of a severely malnourished child.

The problem is, that's not Gaza. It's Yemen in 2016. But how many people check? The emotional impact is the made, and people repeat it. It becomes accepted as "truth", and challenging it makes you heartless.

https://x.com/BernieSanders/status/1949893130880192765

Can I ask why you believe you know better than B’Tselem, Physicians for Human Rights‑Israel (PHR‑Israel), Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch (HRW), Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF / Doctors Without Borders), Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, Genocide Watch, the International Federation for Human Rights and the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights?

What do you evidence do you believe you have that all of these organisations are missing?