To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

Playing devils advocate but I presume the hypocrisy of the Israeli government (not the Jewish people) inflicting such atrocities on another race/ethnic group.

Humans are generally awful regardless of their race and the ethnicity and often can only see the horrors inflicted upon themselves; oblivious to the way they treat others. Other races/groups are dehumanised and is a way of disconnecting themselves from the atrocities they inflict on others.

It's not difficult to understand your viewpoint. I just don't agree.
The Israel government are carrying out acts very similar to the Nazis and to call them Nazis is not anti semitic or racist.
It's absolutely bananas to suggest that there is one country's government that is exempt from being called to account for their actions.

But the Holocaust and the situation in Gaza have very few similarities. Even if you are horrified by what's happening currently, what's your reasoning for choosing the Holocaust to use as comparison over other historical events that will share far more similarities?

The other issue as I see it is that Israel is losing the PR war. A lot of claims about the various "atrocities" it's committing prove, on closer examination, to be incorrect or framed in order to portray it in the worst light possible.

I'm not denying that things are hellish for the civilians of Gaza, before anyone claims that - but I do think that the constant assumption of worst-faith possible explanations for Israeli actions, and the willingness to believe lies and the distortion of truth, probably is in many cases based in antisemitism - it's blood libel, essentially.

It's impossible to scroll X without an endless barrage of "bloodthirsty Israhell demons" posts.

But anyway, as ever, this is a derail - it's impossible to have a thread, on MN or elsewhere, about antisemitism in the UK, without it going back to Gaza.

Why is this grotesque? It is making the point that what the Holocaust victims suffered is comparable with what people in Palestine are suffering.

It is about the fact that everyone said 'never again' but here we are, again, just with different groups of people.

Why is this grotesque? It is making the point that what the Holocaust victims suffered is comparable with what people in Palestine are suffering.

Firstly, it's not. They're two completely different situations.
Secondly, if you're told, time and time again, that this comparison is hurtful and offensive to Jewish people, maybe it's time to find another one.

This is really articulately explained.

It's not very similar to the Nazis at all.

Honestly if you think dressing up as concentration camp victim is an appropriate thing to do, there is literally no debating with you.

I'm sorry but Israeli people and those who support them aren't entitled to have their feelings protected in a way that no one else is.

When you look at what the Palestinians are suffering, its ridiculously entitled to be saying I don't feel comfortable with that. I'm sure that feeling uncomfortable with a comparison would be the least of the worries of the Palestinians people at the moment.

The Holocaust is the worst atrocity I can think of. However it has come to be misused to suggest that Israel can act in a morally repugnant way and be above reproach, because people who first settled there had often been victims of the Holocaust.

Many Israeli families would first have settled there in the aftermath of WW2 and the Holocaust and their suffering has rightly been recognised world wide since.

The link is therefore very relevant, that what their grandparents and great grandparents suffered is happening at their hands to others who also deserve intervention and recognition of their suffering. The link is what makes it poignant.

The fact that it makes others uncomfortable is irrelevant. We need hard truths pointing out at times.

It's not dressing up for a fancy dress part. It is highlighting human suffering. That's the difference.

Many, many people across the world disagree with you. Myself included.

Genocide, forced starvation, shooting those waiting for aid are being portrayed in a negative light?

Is it possible to portray then in a positive light?

It’s not me making the comparison- I am suggesting why some may.
I suspect things like it’s relative recency, the infamy, the scale, the displacement and that it affected Jews and now it’s an Israeli government that is inflicting horrors on a very specific group of people. This maybe where the comparison ends but it will have little impact on the supporters of Netanyahu to compare his current actions to that suffered by another group of non-Jewish people.

It is so easy to make that comparison without understanding the wider repercussions of doing so. I feel you are on dangerous ground.

It shows that there needs to be more widespread education about what anti-semitism is. I am appalled by what is happening to the Palestinian people in Gaza, but I am also appalled by anti-semitism.

I don't think anything enlightening is going to come from this thread so this is the point at which I make my exit.

I was going to say pretty much the same thing.
Absolutely lost for words anyway.

It’s not me making the comparison- I am suggesting why some may

I understand you didn't make the comparison and appreciate you explaining but imo it is never an acceptable or even understandable comparison.

I mean I've never heard anyone compare the Rwandan genocide to the Holocaust...or the conflict in Yemen or the genocide of the Uyghurs or the situation in Sudan.

Not sure why you feel I am on dangerous ground when I haven’t said these are my views.
I have also been careful to say that this is about Netanyahu and his government. Not about Jewish people (Israeli citizens or otherwise). If would be antisemitic if criticised Jewish people as a whole for their actions government’s actions.

Of course not, because the Holocaust is relevant to Netanyahu.
If the Uyghur people started atrocities against another race/ethnicity in a similar scale, saying to them it is in some way similar to the Holocaust and the mass genocide of Jews would not have the same impact as if it was said to be similar to ethnic cleansing of Uyghur people, themselves.
People dehumanise other races and ethnic groups. They only recognise what has happened to themselves.

I'm sorry but Israeli people and those who support them aren't entitled to have their feelings protected in a way that no one else is.

It's not just Israelis that find the comparison hurtful. But I can't stop you if you wish to cause pain, I guess.

‘The other issue as I see it is that Israel is losing the PR war. ’

yes, I suppose committing genocide in a revengeful bloodlust will do that.

yes, I suppose committing genocide in a revengeful bloodlust will do that.

This is exactly the kind of phrasing I'm talking about. And you say it so casually.

Middle Eastern pundits actually get it, far more so than Westerners I think:
https://x.com/amjadt25/status/1949910158223822942

Honestly, No one should use the word genocide ‘casually’ but not should they be afraid to say ‘genocide’ when that’s what’s happening. In full view of the world.

It was the casual use of " revengeful bloodlust" I was referring to.

It was also alleged at the time that Iran paid South Africa to bring the genocide case to the ICJ: https://www.thejc.com/news/world/was-south-africa-bribed-by-iran-to-bring-genocide-case-against-israel-sxtyq756

I can't say for certain how true or not that is, but given that Iran was plausibly behind 7 October as a way to derail the Abraham Accords, it's plausible.

UN says genocide. Medicine sans Frontiers says genocide. Amnesty says genocide. Even human rights grps IN Israel are saying genocide.