To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

One of the most shocking things I've seen is the protesters who were dressed up as Holocaust victims. Grotesque.

Are you willfully ignoring the article where a member of the public spoke to the police about Swatiskas, and the police officer said they would not take action?

There are dozens more articles out there, and photos, if you quickly Google. You can disbelieve all you like, but the evidence is there. There have been articles about support for Hamas and Hezbollah at these marches, pro-terrorist material being distributed etc as well.

Absolutely, but I am sure there are people on this thread who would attempt to justify or minimise this.

There was even an attempt at minimising the Swatiskas above. I despair.

@nomas

I recently years, we have thankfully learnt a LOT and come some way in respecting lived experiences.
For example, now if you question a POC person’s experience of racism, you're rightly called out.
Do the same to a Jew talking about antisemitism, and suddenly it's 'open to debate.'
Funny how empathy has an asterisk..!

I did read the Telegraph article but there was no image of a swastika / placard or any other evidence of one.

Let me clear, any one displaying such symbols should be arrested and charged.

But I don’t think the police or government would tolerate weekly marches with swastikas everywhere and none of the links provided show this. I don’t London has descended into Nazi Germany just yet.

The links do not show the prevalence of the images that you describe. They describe there being the odd presence of a placard with a swastika, which neither we nor the police officer in the story, can see. Also the Daily Mail headline would make it seem that there are thousands of racist placards, but for those of us who can read it is clear that there are thousands of protesters, a very small minority of whom might have such disgusting placards. I think that the presence of one placard is bad enough, but the fact that you are trying to make it seem as though the majority of the protesters are doing this is not on.

And you still haven't even told us about the anti-semitic event that prompted you to create this thread.

I did, if you read the whole thread, and I also gave a detailed account of another incident. I have provided links, and there is a lot of other evidence online. You are still choosing to disbelieve. Would you disbelieve anyone who was giving their personal account of another type of racism? Or is it because I am Jewish m?

I really wish that the government and police wouldn't tolerate this, but you have just read an article where the police officer is explaining that it is tolerated.

I am not "disbelieving". I believe there is a rise in anti-semitism (or that it has never gone away). Being sympathetic with the plight of Palestinians in Gaza does not mean that a person is not aware of this.

Things are really bad enough without you trying to make us turn against people marching in protest about the plight of people in Palestine. For some of us it isn't either or. We can hold two thoughts/ideas in our heads at once.

I am not "disbelieving". I believe there is a rise in anti-semitism (or that it has never gone away). Being sympathetic with the plight of Palestinians in Gaza does not mean that a person is not aware of this.

Is it possible to sympathise about antisemitism in the UK without mentioning Gaza in the same breath? Because there's a subtext there if you do that - you're basically implying all Jewish people are accountable for that, just because they're Jewish.

Drip drip...Oh you are being disingenuous.
You indicated initially that there are neonatzis marching round London with swastikas.

And when pushed you describe something that clearly signifies Israel acting like the Nazis did in the name of Judaism. Ie being Nazis and trampling over Judaism to do so.

This is what I mean about the boy that cried wolf and what is undermining actual anti semitism.

This is what I mean about the boy that cried wolf and what is undermining actual anti semitism.

The OP initially described her and her children being attacked - you know, actual antisemitism.
Would you honestly, hand on heart, speak this way to a black woman who posted to describe being racially abused?

And when pushed you describe something that clearly signifies Israel acting like the Nazis did

Comparing Israeli policy to the Nazis is anti semetic though. If you look up the IHRA definition, it's clearly stated.

I am not referring to that incident. I am referring to her description of people marching around London with swastikas. Trying to slander peaceful people who want an end to suffering in Palestine as violent Nazis.

If someone threatened it abused her family of course that is anti-Semitism, but that is. It what I (or she) was referring to in this post.

I assume at least, because she hasn't actually described what happened.

And yes I would say the same. If a black woman saw me protesting atrocities but someone who happened to be black, and accused me of racism on that basis, I would call her out just as loudly.

I think you are making an assumption that I, andyfamily are all white tbh.

Nope. The opinion of many people is that that view is bullshit. I think the peaceful pressure from the masses in many countries will hopefully force governments to reconsider whether they support that.

Israel have undertaken many actions which are comparable with the Nazis. Ethnic cleansing. dehumanisation. Hoarding helpless people into spaces to die. Removing their rights. Mass starvation.

If someone is enough of a cunt to act like that they get called out on it. Regardless of race and religion.

Because the same term is used to describe various groups that behave in a way comparable to the Nazis, for example ICE in the USA.

One of the key reasons for this conflation is complaints of anti-Semitism which are actually just cases of people disapproving of Israel's actions.

So the conflation of Jews worldwide and Israel is actually, in SOME cases coming from Jewish people.

So people see a pro-Palestine march and call it an antisemitic march etc. which is only strengthening the (false) view that being Jewish and an Israeli supporter is interchangable.

Well the UK government use the IHRAs definition of anti semetism.

So people see a pro-Palestine march and call it an antisemitic march etc. which is only strengthening the (false) view that being Jewish and an Israeli supporter is interchangable.

There were multiple threads on here at the time when the marches were most frequent, cataloguing the various posters and signs that were blatently antisemitic. It's inaccurate to state that the view is always false - sometimes it's true.

So you think there's no anti semetism on the marches because you reject the official definition of anti semetism?

If you are saying that being anti Israel government is anti-Semitic then yes, I like many people wholeheartedly reject that.

The fact that it (currently) is official makes no difference. And I think you will see the number of countries supporting that drop rapidly in light of Israel's actions.

It's nonsensical. It is like Italy committing some awful act, people protesting against it, and then claiming that the protest is anti catholic.

It s a definition which suits some though, feeling as though you can accuse anyone who disagrees with you as racist.

For now.

Oh dear.

Criticising the Israeli government is not necessarily anti semetic.

Comparing them to the Nazis is.

Is it that difficult to understand?

But I didn't do that. I think you have to do a bit of intellectual gymnastics to get to what you are suggesting, and I really don't think it is useful to keep trying to prove that people like me are anti-semitic.
.

I agree with this. And it does seem difficult for people to understand. I always want to ask them why they have chosen that particular atrocity to compare the situation in Palestine to when there are so many others you could use if you wish to do that? I have actually asked people I know and they don't understand what I am saying.

No one is claiming that peaceful protest or criticism of the Israeli government is inherently anti-Semitic. The concern is that, unfortunately, such protest (actual & online etc) while often starting out as mostly sincere and peaceful, have contributed to a rise in anti-Semitism. This is largely because anti-Semitic sentiment remains widespread, and many of these demonstrations and online discussions have been co-opted or distorted, in part due to propaganda efforts by Iran and its proxies, turning them into something less genuine & providing a platform for those with more sinister views, subconscious and conscious.
This becomes especially dangerous for Jewish communities around the world, who increasingly find themselves targeted not for their views, but simply for being Jewish. Synagogues vandalized, Jewish students harassed, and hateful rhetoric spreads unchecked, all under the guise of political protest. What begins as political dissent can quickly become a justification for bigotry, and that shift carries very real, very frightening consequences.
It’s a very tricky situation.