To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

I do not have a clue why my recent post has been deleted?

I have just went over the rules and I am non the wiser?

I've no idea, Dideon - perhaps if you contact MNHQ they can tell you?

Thank you I will.

So for yet another time, why does it matter if it is a unique country?

Just let it go. I'm not going to get into this anymore and it's derailing.

@Dideon
apologies if this wasn’t your post or if I misremembered it but the post I’m thinking of implied that it was understandable that British Jews going about their business in London were getting hate because of anger over the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza, and to suggest otherwise was gaslighting.

That was the one . My point was, not that it is right but that by pretending that there is no correlation between watching the news filled with images of dying children starved by the current Israelis government and the rise in anti-Jewish sentiment is naive at best . I was on the tube last week and there was a young Hasidic Jewish couple next to me . I was smiling at them too much in an attempt to say you’re alright we know it’s not you . I stopped myself because I knew they did not need my smiling at them however I realised that my over smiling was myself making a correlation with Zionist policy and the Jewish couple .

Yes, you are probably right 😞

@Dideon

I think the problem is that when such a correlation is spoken of, it tends to come across as saying that an increase in bigotry against innocent Jewish people is not only to be expected, but permissible and correct. It gives the impression that you sympathise to some extent with its growth.

From your later post, I can see that isn't the case, as you have clarified that it is not right. However, when someone makes a general comment about there being a correlation, it really does tend to lend the impression that the person thinks that a rise in anti-Semitism is to be tolerated, at least somewhat.

I'd say that in a civilised society, a rise in anti-Semitism should NOT be expected in correlation with atrocities perpetrated by the Israeli government. An expectation/requirement that people be able to separate individual Jews from the leaders of a foreign country who also happen to be Jews should be the basic norm. The fact that it doesn't appear to be the basic norm for too many people is very disheartening.

Just as people should be condemned for conflating Muslims generally with extremists like ISIS, anti-Semites should be condemned for bigotry against Jews generally.

I also think that more of a distinction should be made between the Israeli government and the Israeli citizens themselves, because I do think that a lot of discourse the Gaza war can end up being very hateful to the ordinary Israeli people, such as when people justify or outright support and celebrate the 7th October attack. What Hamas did that day were also war crimes, and the murder and torture of civilians is never acceptable, no matter who does it. The Israeli government is committing war crimes on a much larger scale - though I think Hamas would be doing exactly the same thing if they had the resources - but it's really horrifying to see people take pleasure in the idea of Israeli civilians suffering.

The Israeli civilians are as innocent as the Palestinian civilians, but all too often in war, too many people who claim to be against war crimes are suddenly loudly pro-war crimes when they are directed at the civilian population of 'the other side'.

It's another subject that comes under the 'any attempt at explanation is/isn't justification', conundrum.

That genocide in being perpetrated by Arab Muslims in places like Darfur.

No one protesting when Bangladesh slaughtered Hindus.

No one protesting when Muslim militant targeted only Hindu tourists in Kashmir.

No one protesting at Turkey illegally occupying a European Union Member’s territory.

No one protesting at Muslims in Cages in China.

I see a common theme but don’t worry, you’ll have the UK singing ‘to the rivers’ and the police and political elite stand by and condone it.

They even introduced blasphemy via the back door because a certain book was burnt.

I guess this current political climate means we must be obtuse to reality.

I think it would depend what specifically happened. If i was concerned for your safety I may call the police or someone like a bouncer..

If it was just nasty racist comments id probably think the person attacking you was a c* but I wouldnt think to intervene because sticks and stones and all that...

But i do also think with knife crime etc increasing id be unwilling to put myself in a situation I judged risky for a stranger. Even if I thought how someone was behaving was disgusting.

I think this is disgusting, while in my reply I would as a member of the public prioritise my own potential safety over a strangers.

These people have jobs, roles and offices. I think they should have taken you to a safe place so you could call the police or they could

Well it seems that for Mumsnet it is not a conundrum. Just delete any observations that may not be palatable.

I'm awaiting a clarification on the responsibility of tfl staff. Nobody here seems to know for certain. Tfl have defended there actions so far but I am escalating my complaint.

You should, I dont think it matters whether it was Anti-Semetic, or anything else. Someone made a serious threat to a woman and children and you should have been given some sort of shelter to get yourself sorted. Whether that was calling the police, reporting them to the establishment, calling a loved one for help.

Saying i was just threatened with my children, is there somewhere we can go should have been met with support

I think there's an awful lot of denial going on with the group who are fuelling the antisemitism.

The simple fact is, directing disproportionate ire and hate at Israel can be a way of expressing antisemitism.

Why do I think these marches and protests do this rather than support humanitarian aims?

Because they started on the day Israel was invaded, before they'd launched a single missile in response.

Because they often include antisemitism signs, swastikas, antisemitic chants, heil hitler hand gestures.

Because those participating in them also participate in actions such as targeting Jewish businesses, and individuals or tearing down hostage posters.

Because they often deliberately positio themselves to intimidate Jews, for example by being outside sysnogues.

Because those engaging in the movement also engage in antisemitic tropes directed at either Jews, Israelis or Israel- for example, blood libel or comments about Jews controlling governments.

Because the volume and level of obsession is completely disproportionate.

The scale and frequency of pro-Palestine protests in the UK since October 2023 is completely unprecedented in modern British history.

No humanitarian crisis, conflict, or injustice, whether apartheid South Africa, the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, the Rohingya genocide, Syria, or Ukraine, has ever triggered such sustained, nationwide mobilisation.

Week after week, marches have filled central London and other cities, often drawing hundreds of thousands. In terms of turnout, consistency, and geographic spread, nothing comes close.

This is not a normal protest movement - it’s a mass mobilisation of a kind never seen before for any other global cause. That alone should raise questions as it smacks of an obvious truth that people are particularly interested in demonising the one Jewish state.

I think all of it is part of a concerted effort to target Jews for hate, from every aspect of life - trying to exclude them in schools or in work settings, trying to make them feel unsafe... to me it's no different to 1930s Germany in its intent and volume.

I think that unfortunately it's being done under the guise of moral superiority, but it's obvious to me what's going on.

I'm so sorry for Jewish people. Some of us are trying hard to speak up for you.

Really, really great post. Spot on.

👏👏👏👏👏

Reading on another thread that anything can be said without proof as long as it puts people in the worst possible light I agree with you.

On 2 occasions in a week, “a large group” of people threatened you and your young DC? On the second occasion, you got a photo of their number plate but still didn’t report to the police?

Never happened, did it? You sound like you need help with your mental health.

i am presuming you the same poster who started a now deleted thread called “AIBU to think the UK is like 1930s Germany?” In which you were with your husband and two children on public transport in London and were racially abused for being Jewish and told to leave the country. I can’t remember but it could have been by people on their way to a pro Palestine march. It was strikingly similar, descriptions of the children being v upset etc and someone asked how they knew you were Jewish and you responded exactly the same - you shouldn’t have to explain that to posters and then eventually you said you looked visibly Jewish. I’m just curious why you didn’t mention that episode as well as the two you’ve mentioned in this post.

@voxon Articulated perfectly, 100%. No notes!

Why do I think these marches and protests do this rather than support humanitarian aims?

Because they started on the day Israel was invaded, before they'd launched a single missile in response.

Except it’s not true. There were no marches on the day of the attack, and rightfully so.

There’s a David vs Goliath situation here, where one side is funded by blank cheques and arms from the USA. Most people support the underdog, it’s human nature.

An FOI revealed notification to the police on 7 October 2023 of a planned demonstration a week later. The Palestine Solidarity Campaign admits that.